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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:04 AM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><strong>Topic:</strong> The Future of Operating Systems in an Internet World</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="06-Aug-20 11:52 AM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:06 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm the one who pitched this topic in the first place, so here's what I was thinking at the time I wrote it</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:07 AM">10:07</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Basically: the web gets a lot of crap around here, for good reasons, but the interesting thing about it to me is that the ease of distribution and the remarkable cross-platform support seem to outweigh the downsides of the crappy tech stack for nearly everyone.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:07 AM">10:07</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">At the same time, we have all kinds of discussions here about the future of computing, and part of that is broadly on the "operating system" side of things</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:08 AM">10:08</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and I often feel like those OS brainstorms don't really take the internet into account</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:08 AM">10:08</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The web has dramatically changed how software is developed and distributed, and I think any future operating system needs to consider how it could achieve some of the same benefits</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:09 AM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I've been looking into a lot of the web technologies, having been not very interested until about 5 months ago, the ease of distribution is definitely readily apparent.

One of the nicest things about some of the technologies coming to maturity in this case is <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebAssembly" target="_blank">WebAssembly</a> which I know both you and Bill have been messing with a lot. Which in practice is a fantasy CPU on the computer of anyone who has a browser on their machine</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:10 AM">10:10</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which is everyone.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:10 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">WASM is really just a small part of it</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:10 AM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Of the entire web ecosystem?</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:10 AM">10:10</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(Just to clarify)</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:10 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think there's a much larger conversation to be had about what "programs" look like in the context of the web</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:11 AM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Gotcha</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:11 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">WASM provides an execution environment, but there's much more to what we expect from an operating system</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:11 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't know when bmp will show, but this has been the center of a lot of discussion around how a user experience is designed in a world chock full of internet.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:12 AM">10:12</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What's your thesis?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:12 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I didn't prep it as much as I should have <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:13 AM">10:13</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A starting place may be the fact that browsers have already become strange approximations of operating systems</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:13 AM">10:13</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Browsers now are virtual machines, window managers, persistent storage APIs, and graphics drivers</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:14 AM">10:14</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but they look very different from traditional OSes, and subject "programs" to much stronger restrictions</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:18 AM">(edited)</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:14 AM">10:14</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think traditional operating systems provide a model for an "offline" OS, and browsers provide a model for a strictly "online" OS</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:15 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A given website is a software package that you download and run, and it needs to be able to be streamed in as such?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:15 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm curious if there is some kind of middle ground; a hybrid approach that gives you rich control over local data while still allowing easy distribution of software (and extra protections with it?)</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:15 AM">10:15</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I know Ryan mentioned the idea of "temporary software" at one point</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:16 AM">10:16</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">as something in that direction</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:16 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think that's kinda where the biggest idea of a "online" is comes in, the systems offer different expectations to how the software is structured.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:17 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I could get deeper into the weeds, but I want to hear other people's initial thoughts about the issue before I go any further</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:17 AM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:19 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Hello everyone. Regarding OSes, what do people use the OS for effectively? Some way to load programs, access to the file system, communicating to hardware and external things, threads, memory allocation, etc. The OS is not much different to the kernel to what people actually want from it. (This is ignoring the GUI/TUI)</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:20 AM">10:20</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So a Web "OS" needs to support something like this and not much more.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:20 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Its interesting you mention protections. I don't want to derail the current topic of convo too much as we just started, but one topic of conversation perhaps on a less "tech centric" level have been what has been pet named "post-<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number" target="_blank">Dunbar</a> world problems"

You have a world where, in terms of ethics, anything can be shared so easily. You can imagine an online note-taking app, where how private some information is is variable. <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%2B" target="_blank">Google Plus</a> famously failed the circle idea, but I think how to manage the social connection side of the internet technology is one of the things you'd need most to pay attention to when it comes to how you construct the protection systems both for bad actors, and even your grandma who shares that picture of your child that really didn't need to be on facebook etc.

How do you establish a lifestyle for people to adopt which makes the most use of the internet in their day to day workflow?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708367803727609868" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708367803727609868">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:20 AM">10:20</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But perhaps we should get back to that later. (However I think it's important to have that stewing in everyone's mind as we push forward into the development of the user experience.)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:22 AM">(edited)</span>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708367890021351475" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708367890021351475">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:21 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, that will probably be an interesting area to explore once we have a better idea what we're even talking about</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708367971042459728" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708367971042459728">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:21 AM">10:21</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think Bill is right to question what we want from an OS in the first place</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708368583218167819" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708368583218167819">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:23 AM">10:23</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We've already seen that a browser can <em>kind of</em> be collapsed into a traditional operating system in the form of <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS" target="_blank">ChromeOS</a>. But using ChromeOS makes it pretty apparent that browsers alone are lacking a lot of what you need from a general-purpose computer.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708368827381186573" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708368827381186573">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:24 AM">10:24</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Local data feels like the biggest problem to me. I believe ChromeOS has some kind of terrible file manager, but even assuming they had something better there, web software is generally antithetical to the idea of local data</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708368873304358954" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708368873304358954">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:25 AM">10:25</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">all the data is almost by definition stored somewhere else</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:27 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm interested in what you mean Bill, if basically the things that the kernel gives you are what's missing (insofar as they are) from the current browser environment, does this mean the OS part of the software being downloaded and run is managed by the website host essentially? (Moving away from "personal computing" or do you mean simply that the web having more access to the computer's resources allows it to do more, the "fantasy cpu"/virtual machine elements essentially just being distribution alone?)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:27 AM">(edited)</span>
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:28 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm thinking this from purely a user standpoint. What does the average computer user use a computer for?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:28 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><s>web browsing</s></span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708369797754257469" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708369797754257469">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:28 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Email answering machine?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370102642540554" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370102642540554">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:29 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Effectively, they use an application for a particular task. Be it web browsing, emails, Photoshop, word processing, spreadsheets, games, images, printing, etc.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370226122850354" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370226122850354">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:30 AM">10:30</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">People don't think of the OS as a thing but as the arena that those tasks can be done.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370265263833148" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370265263833148">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:30 AM">10:30</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And a web browser is akin to this too.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370502783336468" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370502783336468">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:31 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's a sense in which something like a file system is already being offloaded onto the internet from a user's standpoint</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370561667170356" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370561667170356">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:31 AM">10:31</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So many applications make a transition.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708370693250613278" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708370693250613278">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:32 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes. The file system is already abstracted on the web side of things, but not as much locally.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371020268175360" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371020268175360">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:33 AM">10:33</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As Ben states, ChromeOS is more than enough for most people using a computer. And that to me is quite interesting.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:33 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Most being 60%+</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371100580446211" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371100580446211">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:33 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">One thing I dislike from a user perspective about the internet today, though, is that nobody really "owns" their data any more. You usually can't store data locally; it's trapped in third-party services.</span>

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</div>







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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371336720023553" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371336720023553">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:34 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think that what the average user of today needs of technology is a chromebook, and I've suggested it to people I know.

From a market standpoint the largest companies out there already made their move.</span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:35 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But what makes ChromeOS so much more appealing to people? To Bill's point, it's really just that it allows them to do the tasks they want to do.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371668564836382" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371668564836382">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:36 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Exactly!!!</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371714295201832" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371714295201832">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:36 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think the question is more, how can a operating system incorporate the internet for the better. Can it? If you hybridize, from a user perspective the difference hardly exists</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371757874020464" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371757874020464">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:36 AM">10:36</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Like none.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371814505513075" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371814505513075">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:36 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well, it may be interesting to examine the workflows for which the web does <em>not</em> work today</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708371998052712589" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708371998052712589">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:37 AM">10:37</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">gaming generally requires better graphics performance than browsers can currently offer, but beyond that, it also requires very large amounts of local data</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372052914077846" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372052914077846">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:37 AM">10:37</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">photography is the same way</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372123911061586" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372123911061586">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:37 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Basically, as Bill suggested, just what the kernel gives the "offline" OS now.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:38 AM">(edited)</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372518808846418" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372518808846418">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:39 AM">10:39</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The question is, when you add the ease of distribution that Ben started with, what happens to that software which can't work on the web now?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372676221206658" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372676221206658">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:40 AM">10:40</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">How does an operating system, from the user perspective, facilitate that distribution power?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372759037739029" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372759037739029">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:40 AM">10:40</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Does the site owner just handle it like say google does with cloud services?</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:40 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That's what I think is interesting to explore. There are multiple angles to this thing - the web makes software distribution very easy, but web apps today were designed around the assumption that all data had to be on the server</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708372867921870949" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708372867921870949">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:40 AM">10:40</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">App stores / package managers may provide a contrasting model, but I don't think they're really sufficient</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:41 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think if you want to not have the problem you mentioned earlier, you need to be able to "own" and store locally that information despite the distribution system being completely transformed.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:41 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so there is software distribution, but also how the software itself operates</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708373038080721036" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708373038080721036">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:41 AM">10:41</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">which are two very different things, potentially</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:41 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Elaborate?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708373526180134994" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708373526180134994">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:43 AM">10:43</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In addition, where are the failings with package managers for the web in your experience?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:43 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I knew I should have written up more of a thesis last night</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:44 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I've had an alright experience with the <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux#Arch_User_Repository_(AUR)" target="_blank">AUR</a> for <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux" target="_blank">Arch</a> for instance. Or rather parts of it which are nice to use definitely nice even if you miss what works about windows.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708373938740134000" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708373938740134000">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:45 AM">10:45</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think for the average user, downloading the google package or what have you for a given service is as easy as chrome extensions are now.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:45 AM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:49 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So, I basically see a strong dichotomy right now between native software and web software, even if that native software is managed by a launcher or package manager. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. Native software requires explicit installation but has more direct access to your computers resources and can work with shared persistent storage in the form of the filesystem. Web software requires is just streamed to the user as they request it, but is subject to much stronger security models, and due to the ad-hoc design of the web, doesn't really have the same level of capability as a native app. I'm curious if we can envision a system that breaks down that dichotomy while still keeping users safe and happy.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:51 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It feels to me like that will happen one way or another. After all, browsers continue to push more and more towards the full capabilities of operating systems.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708375668819361934" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708375668819361934">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:52 AM">10:52</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I don't want the future of computing to just be renting time on other people's computers. Turning everybody's computers into dumb terminals feels wrong.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708375718437978174" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708375718437978174">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:52 AM">10:52</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">At the same time, a dumb terminal is really great for a lot of users (see ChromeOS)</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:52 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well I think the utility of being able to have shared file systems and whatnot running on your own machine is highly subject to having a machine that actually has those.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708376191647744130" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708376191647744130">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:54 AM">10:54</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which as Bill is pointing out about ChromeOS and co, people who can use the applications they expect (however premeditated and provider-constructed that expectation is) will be happy without those, to an extent.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:54 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">One point that I want to earmark for later is the data ownership. I don't know if we ever found a fifth person, but along the lines of data ownership especially as it relates to security and smarthome/IoT tech, Ryan and I seem to have similar views, which we could expand upon later. Perhaps he'd like to join us for that segment</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:55 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Avoiding the "car fleet" problem--wherein you are in a future where fleets of automatic Tesla cars roam the world to transport you for a fee--is also hard to avoid for computers as terminals.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708376833510473744" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708376833510473744">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:56 AM">10:56</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think you have to design for yourself, or as I've been alluding to, sell a lifestyle which the browser advancement facilitates, it's not clear you can avoid that future.

(This is part of why I am skeptical if the ramification of Bill's point that if the web just incorporates the utility of the offline OS' access to hardware, then the issue of the superior qualities of the internet being missing from offline OS is gone.

As Demetri put it at one point, when it comes to something like the ownership of your data, something bigger is going to have to come and kill the current Google profit model to dethrone that.)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:02 AM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:57 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As far as the Web/OS boundary, as well as the restrictions and sandboxing elements, I think (and this seems to be mildly unpopular among desktop developers) the smartphone "app" model is a good one</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377126033948673" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377126033948673">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:57 AM">10:57</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think iOS and Android, for all their flaws, do a much better job of blurring the lines of what constitutes the web, while putting explicit user-interacting security barriers in place</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:58 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I agree with that, although I think app <em>stores</em> are a plague upon that model</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:58 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I think we can take it further than that, and not even have a user-aware distinction between "app" and "webpage"</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:58 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">maybe not inherently, but certainly if they are enforced</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377426694242374" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377426694242374">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:58 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(Implied, I hope, is that this is not based on existing web tech, but rather a parallel concept of what the web is more generally)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377499498840225" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377499498840225">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:59 AM">10:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">app stores do provide some legitimacy, though, which is important to consider</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377501398728715" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377501398728715">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:59 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think that is implied everywhere in this conversation <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377532868853811" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377532868853811">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 10:59 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">however I don't think the "store" model is right at all</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377577319956490" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377577319956490">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 10:59 AM">10:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'd prefer just a search engine for "apps"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377705141370970" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377705141370970">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:00 AM">11:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">where apps would be generic locally-installed programs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377744664428608" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377744664428608">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:00 AM">11:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and "web pages" would be a specialized kind of sandboxed app</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708377941192605737" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708377941192605737">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:01 AM">11:01</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">to the point of webasm, which I hope you and Bill get into more here Ben, I think that's largely one of the virtues of it - it's trying to bridge that gap somewhat</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378001355702283" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378001355702283">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:01 AM">11:01</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">whether it's good enough, or successful enough, or low-level enough for the task is a different matter</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:01 AM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378231048372255" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378231048372255">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:02 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So in your preferred model, you'd still have a distinction between "apps" and "web apps", where web apps have stronger permissions? Or am I misunderstanding</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378241722744882" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378241722744882">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:02 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it certainly addresses the distribution aspect, though, by being runnable in an abstracted machine</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378418722635857" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378418722635857">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:02 AM">11:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="bvisness#0001">@bvisness</span> from a user-facing perspective, no. From a developer perspective, yes, you'd have programs with different levels of gating</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378544866328686" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378544866328686">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:03 AM">11:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A user could choose to "trust" a given program to install itself locally for full access and performance improvements for instance</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378578063982602" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378578063982602">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:03 AM">11:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it would be the same program</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378699677827082" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378699677827082">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:04 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Will developers bother?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378730497572955" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378730497572955">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:04 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">"Web pages" these days are less word doc (old-style HTML pages) and more "an app specialized for displaying text and layouts"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378806351822848" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378806351822848">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:04 AM">11:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Bother with what?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708378973632987238" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708378973632987238">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:05 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Bother with making different forms of their app?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379033183977482" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379033183977482">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:05 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's not a different form</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379117107675180" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379117107675180">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:05 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Even if it's easier, if you product is expected to do XYZ, the user expects that, and they will give whatever permissions.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379129107579010" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379129107579010">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:05 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">imagine pre-compiling a webasm program to machine code</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379161756041246" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379161756041246">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:05 AM">11:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">to a .exe</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379182245085184" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379182245085184">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:05 AM">11:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">that's basically what I'm talking about</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379271323975702" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379271323975702">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:06 AM">11:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">"yes I trust this app completely" -&gt; compile it and allow it to run locally without the sandboxing</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379416551620661" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379416551620661">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:06 AM">11:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">some applications might depend on not being sandboxed to function (intensive games)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379453444718713" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379453444718713">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:07 AM">11:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but most would not</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379512961761373" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379512961761373">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:07 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Games are a great example of the user just expecting to do what they expect to be able to do.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379578338377770" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379578338377770">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:07 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But like with Phone applications, if you don't accept what the hardware can access, you cannot access it.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708379910854672455" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708379910854672455">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:08 AM">11:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Security concerns seem to be a mostly solved problem, kind of. Different aspects that the "OS" can interact with requires permission if it isn't completely self isolated</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708380043746738256" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708380043746738256">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:09 AM">11:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Mobile applications are becoming more and more self isolated + permissions for the outside world.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708380138361847818" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708380138361847818">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:09 AM">11:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The OS is the umpire between the hardware and the applications wanting the access the hardware.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708380188333047860" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708380188333047860">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:09 AM">11:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And other "services"</span>

                    </div>




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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:10 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So say a web page in a browser is essentially a "service"</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708380679569932448" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708380679569932448">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:11 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think this model of how things should interact will be taken forth, even if the model is not necessarily the best.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708380828140437584" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708380828140437584">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:12 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The way wasm works now if you get a memory space for that "instance." Does this self containment + permission mean the permission system is based off a particular API for that form of control over the machine? (Whatever permission you ask for by using it?)</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708381091437740206" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708381091437740206">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:13 AM">11:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL" target="_blank">WebGL</a> -&gt; OpenGL system works kind of like this.</span>

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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708381829283184752" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708381829283184752">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:16 AM">11:16</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Do you have plans for incorporating that model into how <a class="inserted-after" href="https://github.com/gingerBill/Midgard" target="_blank">Midgard</a> will be used?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:16 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I've been experimenting with WASM lately with my "Midgard" experimental project. I want to see what I can do with the web "platform", per se.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382017749909617" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382017749909617">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:17 AM">11:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Unfortunately, WASM doesn't have a way to specify what is required with regards to hardware yet, and that has to be done with the JS interface.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:18 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As an avid user of gingerBill™️ products, I have to say that if I were going to write serious mixed-platform applications I would much prefer to use <a class="inserted-after" href="https://odin-lang.org/" target="_blank">Odin</a> over Midgard - tangential to this conversation, but have you considered WASM support for Odin as an end goal of the Midgard "experiment" or is it meant to be a self-contained end product?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:18 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In many regards, the JS platform layer can act as this intermediary, which is a form of platform or pseudo-kernel layer for the application</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382486056403076" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382486056403076">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:19 AM">11:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">WASM support for Odin should be relatively simple with the LLVM backend, but Midgard is purely an experimental project to see what WASM can do by focusing purely on the WASM platform.</span>

                    </div>




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                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="thumbsup">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="👍" src="files/1f44d-B3F5F.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:19 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I do think a WASM-like model that's designed to be "compilable" would be very nice. I see some elements of this in how Ryan has discussed some of Dion's internal representation/distribution model</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:19 AM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382687764807760" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382687764807760">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:19 AM">11:19</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in Midgard and I'm excited about the new WASM streams <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😄" title="smile" src="files/twemoji_1f604.svg"></span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382709529051176" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382709529051176">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:19 AM">11:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I just &lt;3 Odin</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382736313745551" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382736313745551">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:20 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am effectively treating WASM as the architecture and the standard web interface (HTML, JS, CSS) as the pseudo-platform/pseudo-kernel layer.</span>

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                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:20 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And by doing this, I am going to see what is actually required by an "OS" to be useful.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="thumbsup">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="👍" src="files/1f44d-B3F5F.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382803653427230" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382803653427230">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:20 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> I was just chatting with a friend on the WASM team at Mozilla last night - they're already planning to cache compiled machine code after loading WASM modules</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:20 AM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382835328942101" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382835328942101">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:20 AM">11:20</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">in Firefox anyway</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382871420928121" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382871420928121">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:20 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">oh, very interesting!</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708382940027158611" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708382940027158611">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:20 AM">11:20</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="bvisness#0001">@bvisness</span> this is very much the sort of model I have in mind</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383141940822088" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383141940822088">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:21 AM">11:21</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">distributing "apps"/"pages" in an abstracted platform representation/<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bytecode" target="_blank">bytecode</a>, which is sandboxed and API-restricted, and compiling that down to machine code as needed</span>

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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383178573873262" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383178573873262">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:21 AM">11:21</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you can then keep the machine code as long as the version doesn't change</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383313026351225" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383313026351225">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:22 AM">11:22</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and it has the same security guarantees as the bytecode, exempting problems with the security implementation</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383413954150460" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383413954150460">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:22 AM">11:22</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(as long as the compilation and sandboxing is correctly implemented, it should be secure - and there are security problems with any platform, so I don't see this as an exceptionally bad sticking point)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:23 AM">(edited)</span>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:24 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think even having this streaming concept be expanded not as wasm then convert to exe, but rather streams of wasm into streams of dll. <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> ?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383822412251187" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383822412251187">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:24 AM">11:24</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(I'm being pithy, but my point is you construct the software differently)</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708383838417584208" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708383838417584208">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:24 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">yes, I've certainly considered <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_linker" target="_blank">dynamic linking</a> as part of my mental model for this</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:24 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, I think a clear benefit of the web distribution model is that software can be distributed in chunks if that's useful</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:24 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I do think you want the distributed code to be "called into" (granted, EXEs are just this, but for the OS itself)</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708384058341589093" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708384058341589093">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:25 AM">11:25</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and on that note, nakst's entry point for <a class="inserted-after" href="https://nakst.gitlab.io/essence" target="_blank">Essence</a> programs as an event loop is very interesting to me</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:25 AM">(edited)</span>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:25 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">WASM is very much designed to be a Sandboxed environment, but I do find it extremely interesting how it is designed. I am extremely impressed by its design, or it's possible design to be a form of pseudo-application application with it's own virtualized memory spaces (plural) and more.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:25 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A given program runs on two cpu's effectively, under your [brendan's] model.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:25 AM">(edited)</span>
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:26 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">correct, the abstract CPU and the real CPU</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708384688992944289" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708384688992944289">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:27 AM">11:27</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">although ostensibly they're always compiled (no need to interpret, afaict, aside from maybe some <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation" target="_blank">JIT</a> metaprogramming stuff)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:28 AM">(edited)</span>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:28 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I also have been quite impressed with wasm. The guys working on it are <em>not</em> dumb. It basically utilizes the helpful characteristics of a stack machine, while not getting dragged down by it.

I don't think Brendan's model, however effective which I'm skeptical, fits into it as-is. 

But what <em>is</em> there makes "pseudo-native" development very appealing.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:30 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I agree that WASM is not suitable as the end-all-be-all of my design (I don't intend to use it at all, outside of experimenting with its design)</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708385392575119370" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708385392575119370">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:30 AM">11:30</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am impressed by how much it seems to get right, though</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708385435637907646" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708385435637907646">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:30 AM">11:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">while having to live under the current ecosystem</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:31 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It takes the sandboxing, potentially, to a second level instead of trying to cheat it.

Everything gets it's own customizable sandbox.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:31 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For me, WASM is the new "<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash_Player" target="_blank">Flash</a>". And I mean that as a good thing. Flash allowed people to create things that were not possible with pure HTML/JS/CSS whatsoever. If we are able to have a general purpose environment, the programmer can do whatever he requires.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:32 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Gets an entire "fantasy cpu" and "fantasy os" to itself in effect.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386012002385991" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386012002385991">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:33 AM">11:33</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-border"></div><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-content">WASM is the new "Flash"
</div></div>Yes minus the terrible battery consumption and other tech issue.

My basic intention with wasm is to make a flash-like environment, flash application and games being my childhood tradition. ;P</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:33 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">this gets to the sort of inversion I would like to see</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386175785632431" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386175785632431">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:33 AM">11:33</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">flash sat inside HTML/CSS/JS and the DOM model</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386225282613299" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386225282613299">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:33 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We talk about this somewhat yesterday, but a good part of the issue with HTML/JS/CSS is trying to split aesthetics and mechanics.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:34 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I would like to see WASM become the new lingua franca of the web, and new layouting frameworks emerge within it</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386318954135623" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386318954135623">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:34 AM">11:34</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(to the extent that I care about the current instantiation of the web)</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386339527327834" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386339527327834">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:34 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">that's no different in principle from having programs for viewing PDF documents vs. word docs</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386388269334640" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386388269334640">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:34 AM">11:34</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and I think it's very desirable</span>

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                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="👆" src="files/1f446-D877E.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:35 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">although, there is the whole hypertext aspect to it, but presumably resources could still link between each other</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386319734407168" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386319734407168">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:34 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Html was supposed to be "content" and CSS the "presentation"</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:34 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">JS thrown on top for "dynamicism"</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386693237178388" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386693237178388">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:35 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The idea of splitting these up into different systems has basically slowed everything down to the loit where node.js or whatever essentially exists to let people who know JS just have access to non-DOM objects.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:36 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">this is where things like React are actually correct, at least in terms of rethinking the model</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708386988293881876" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708386988293881876">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:36 AM">11:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">as a unified medium of design</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387032958894152" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387032958894152">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:37 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm not sure what you mean by that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387055079522398" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387055079522398">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:37 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's a noble goal.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387141989957683" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387141989957683">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:37 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">React allows you to design pages with pure JavaScript</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387188374503464" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387188374503464">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:37 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">oh, sure</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387208826060862" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387208826060862">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:37 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">though it's sunk a bit by including HTML/CSS in its interface</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387265545633802" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387265545633802">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:38 AM">11:38</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it makes JS the only first-class citizen</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387322462470256" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387322462470256">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:38 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">well, it makes sense given what it is working with, and the core of React is not technically DOM-specific at all</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387331115319410" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387331115319410">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:38 AM">11:38</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but that's a tangent</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387348764819537" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387348764819537">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:38 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the logic belongs as the foundational layer, not the layout</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387391853035721" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387391853035721">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:38 AM">11:38</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I agree completely</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387553635467285" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387553635467285">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:39 AM">11:39</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't think it's much of a tangent; it's a step in the right direction toward abandoning the web as "document viewer" and moving toward the web as "application distributor"</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387632232660993" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387632232660993">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:39 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The noble goal on question.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387761845174434" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387761845174434">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:40 AM">11:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">However misguided by trying to preserve Javascript from the ecosystem.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387789573456002" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387789573456002">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:40 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I hope people understand why I mentioned "Flash".</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387838881824778" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387838881824778">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:40 AM">11:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Flash was actually what designers and programmers want.</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387865297682513" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387865297682513">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:40 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">right</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387912227487785" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387912227487785">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:40 AM">11:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">for all its problems, it was very successful</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387965675765780" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387965675765780">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:40 AM">11:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's still held up as an ideal by many animators</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708387978723983401" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708387978723983401">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:40 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But people need to understand why it was successful.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388062274781236" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388062274781236">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:41 AM">11:41</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And Flash the application is still great for doing animation work.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388180302233660" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388180302233660">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:41 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It let people do what they wanted and expected to be able to do</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388198237339659" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388198237339659">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:41 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">From what it said on the tin</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388180470005820" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388180470005820">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:41 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">flash was "embedded applications for the web" in the same way that webasm/canvas promises to be</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388314868220056" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388314868220056">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:42 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I hope WASM can be that, and my experimentation is showing that it might be possible.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388354487746711" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388354487746711">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:42 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I have a problem with the "embedded" part but that's not flash or webasm's <em>fault</em></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388432245948539" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388432245948539">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:42 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and it being embedded is only a side effect of the current ecosystem</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388452353179728" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388452353179728">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:42 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">indeed</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388509672800407" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388509672800407">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:43 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it can be embedded in any host that will give it what it needs</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:43 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Bill, you mentioned on stream how brilliant the linking/distribution for webasm programs is; could you elaborate a bit on that? If it's not too technical for this discussion</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708388808718024815" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708388808718024815">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:44 AM">11:44</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think that sort of thing is important when discussing distribution models for applications that live between native and sandbox</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:45 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Through Ben's help, I actually discovered a way to do linking with WASM, which I don't know if anyone else has determined yet.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708389403185381506" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708389403185381506">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:46 AM">11:46</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The short answer, you define the memory offset for the data segment to be relative to an externally defined global variable.
<div class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--multiline nohighlight">data_seg_foo = offset(_external_data_segment + _local_offset)</div></span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708389641107275856" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708389641107275856">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:47 AM">11:47</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or whatever.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:47 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The way WASM works actually reminds me a bit of the idea of booting into software on older PCs (and the nostalgia for doing this with old games)

Opening the webpage is booting into a system with virtual memory (potentially multiple) you get pretty complete access to what you ask for, it seems.

Once again, the sandboxing is taken to the next level instead of trying to cheat it.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:47 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I believe that works fine as long as you make all your data accesses relative to that offset global, right?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:48 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Correct, I think.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:48 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Absolute memory addresses in instructions would still be unable to relocate in a sensible way</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708389932506284102" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708389932506284102">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:48 AM">11:48</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So to my understanding, that makes it an acceptable linking solution when you are the producer of all modules, but it wouldn't work in general for importing a third-party WASM module?</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:48 AM">11:48</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I suppose that's trivially true anyway, since they wouldn't care about your offset global</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:48 AM">(edited)</span>
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:49 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For two modules to communicate, the JS platform layer would have to be the mediator.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708390226913132664" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708390226913132664">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:49 AM">11:49</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">e.g. the pseudo-kernel</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:50 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">yeah</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:51 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But for this linking system to work, each application would have to follow the same convention. It would not be enforced exactly.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:52 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">From what I was reading in their docs, it's primarily set up right now to allow for careful dynamic linking, and eventually they wanted to make a stable ABI to allow for more options</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708390854255181854" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708390854255181854">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:52 AM">11:52</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">with "dynamic linking" being just passing exports and imports around in JS</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:52 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">My idea was probably something a little more "clever".</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:53 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I know it came up in the context of static linking; were you imagining that you would process several WASM modules and combine them into one by reordering the data segments?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708391595392761967" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708391595392761967">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:55 AM">11:55</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">anyway, that's probably a tangent from this overall conversation - and in general I'm thinking that dynamic linking is probably the way to go for much of web software</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708391848611152023" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708391848611152023">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:56 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">right so you could have SuperDuperGuiFramework-v12.56 machine-code cached on your machine</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708391917120913448" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708391917120913448">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:56 AM">11:56</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and any application that requests the same version of the same library uses that cached version</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392019126648882" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392019126648882">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:56 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That is a potential for language runtimes as well</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:57 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This isn't tangential whatsoever.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392167915257947" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392167915257947">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:57 AM">11:57</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For me, the OS/Kernel is fundamentally an umpire/mediator between applications and hardware.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:57 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think it's useful to explore WASM-specific concepts as they relate to this conceptually-similar thing that we're discussing</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392255416827925" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392255416827925">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:57 AM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Applications and Applications; Applications and Hardware; Hardware and Hardware</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392351160205333" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392351160205333">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:58 AM">11:58</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And the web browser has become a form of pseudo-kernel, which I keep stating.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392395921686579" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392395921686579">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:58 AM">11:58</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am not sure I like this future, but it is the future we are dealing with.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392564566392893" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392564566392893">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:59 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the web browser is an abstract OS</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392674381660222" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392674381660222">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:59 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">hence ChomeOS as a small shim under the browser being a relatively fully-featured OS</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392776420687992" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392776420687992">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 11:59 AM">11:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(leaving aside the full Android app support, haha)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392639950618686" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392639950618686">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:59 AM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was going to bring up <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-process_communication" target="_blank">inter-process communication</a>, actually, and more generally that desktop programs have a much better time interoperating because they all have access to the filesystem</span>

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            </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392854384279572" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392854384279572">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:00 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-border"></div><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-content">For me, the OS/Kernel is fundamentally an umpire/mediator between applications and hardware.
</div></div>This gets to the booting software idea. Classically you imagine booting into Doom or something and you get full access to the hardware resources, in WASM it's essentially virtualized but completely accessible no? <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="gingerBill#9999">@gingerBill</span></span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708392908537200660" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708392908537200660">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:00 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393003374608496" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393003374608496">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:00 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think that's a great opportunity to use an old and honestly great model.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393074413404272" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393074413404272">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:01 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Same. I hope my experimentation brings light to some of this.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393133922058280" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393133922058280">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:01 PM">12:01</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am not entirely sure I will discover much, but it will be useful to me regardless.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393330555224075" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393330555224075">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That was kinda gonna be my pithy answer to he whole thing we started the conversation on. Each webpage is it's own OS basically. (Like Doom or whatever has it's own way of accessing and managing the resources of the computer it's made to run on.)</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
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        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'd say each OS is it's own virtualized environment, and not an OS.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393539436019743" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393539436019743">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Sure.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393580925812748" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393580925812748">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:03 PM">12:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I did say it was meant to be pithy. ;P</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393581479723068" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393581479723068">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The browser itself is the "OS".</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393687301881966" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393687301881966">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">My point is it fits the booting model.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708393784412471367" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708393784412471367">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:03 PM">12:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In a strange way, I'm excited for the web as a place for self contained applications, with all the distributive powers of loading a webpage.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394182431211572" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394182431211572">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:05 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am partially excited too. The web will be this homogenous thing which will be the "same" across multiple browsers.</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394305793949866" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394305793949866">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So regarding the design of Midgard, how does it fit into your model for how you see wasm being used in the best case?</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394478683291709" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394478683291709">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am designing Midgard just to be a basic language that directly maps to WASM. So I can see what I can do for an application in a virtualized environment.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394624900661391" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394624900661391">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There are <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(programming_language)" target="_blank">Pascal</a>ism like group declarations that fit into the wasm model quite well, without needing to do a straight <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression" target="_blank">s-expression</a>* based <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebAssembly#Code_representation" target="_blank">.wat</a> it seems</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:09 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394649462767630" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394649462767630">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:07 PM">12:07</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Very easy to implement</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394694685491231" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394694685491231">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:07 PM">12:07</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ans thus easy to adapt if wasm changes much?</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394722732802116" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394722732802116">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It seems that the Pascal model fits very well for WASM, which is partially surprising to me.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394814529470486" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394814529470486">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:08 PM">12:08</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am not sure who are the main architects behind WASM, but I would love to discuss things with them.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708394984264433685" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708394984264433685">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:08 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The design repo for WebAssembly has lists of people who are in on the meetings and doing proposals</span>

                    </div>




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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I do guess that there is a main architect or two.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395116045402277" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395116045402277">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:09 PM">12:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Because the general idea does seem to come from a single-ish mind.</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395175864696983" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395175864696983">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:09 PM">12:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Compared to the rest of the web stuff, it's extremely well designed.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395196307472414" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395196307472414">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Agreed</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395252083327066" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395252083327066">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Have you read any of the post-mvp proposals?</span>

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    </div>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395278964883552" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395278964883552">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I haven't yet.</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395281452105741" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395281452105741">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was just starting to dig into those this morning</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395311265218721" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395311265218721">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Likewise!</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395321650053163" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395321650053163">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Could we get a brief rundown on how WASM "memories" work?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395374485700769" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395374485700769">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:10 PM">12:10</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For myself and spectators who are not familiar</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395502571618405" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395502571618405">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> Simply, they are just a separate memory spaces. Currently, there is only one memory allowed.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395555641884732" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395555641884732">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Basically virtualized memory, but you can get more of them (eventually)</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395738949877801" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395738949877801">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395776266731531" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395776266731531">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:11 PM">12:11</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_pointer" target="_blank">NEAR and FAR pointers</a> are back, baby!</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="distHappy">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="distHappy" src="files/366623288081907713-5D000.png" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708395965177921716" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708395965177921716">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:12 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was sort of leading into that</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396073240100894" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396073240100894">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:13 PM">12:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It should be possible to (with permission) get direct access to another program's memory space</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396111316123681" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396111316123681">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:13 PM">12:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In the form of a fat pointer of sorts</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396247853039727" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396247853039727">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:13 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Possibly, yes. I could imagine "<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-mapped_file" target="_blank">mmap-ing</a>" something into a specialized memory space, and thus be very safe too.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396312055513148" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396312055513148">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:14 PM">12:14</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It would have to be a fat pointer, which stores the memory index too.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396520403239032" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396520403239032">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So you can already see the potential for some of the excitement of a model built fully around these concepts if you imagine having full-native applications that simply provide a memory-mapped region to the WASM environment</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396529857200190" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396529857200190">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">hey so I have an emergency bulletin - my friend who works on the WASM team at Mozilla is available right now</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="open_mouth">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="😮" src="files/1f62e-B0B43.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">3</span>
                            </div>
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="fishbowl">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="fishbowl" src="files/707755256335040522-8B7CC.png" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">2</span>
                            </div>
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="hmn">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="hmn" src="files/468520574600085514-E9638.png" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">3</span>
                            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396540921774116" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396540921774116">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For interop</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396651881955378" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396651881955378">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so, if you have specific questions about WASM, the design behind it, and the new proposals in the works...</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:26 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396719108259961" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396719108259961">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That is very very cool!!!</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396739094380564" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396739094380564">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="eqrion#8080">@eqrion</span>  is your guy</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396739782246622" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396739782246622">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'll make a quick list.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396741229281380" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396741229281380">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Awesome!</span>

                    </div>




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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:16 PM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><a href="https://i.imgur.com/rDcY62O.png" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/rDcY62O.png</a></span>

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                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708396874935173223" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708396874935173223">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:16 PM">12:16</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">H Y P E</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:16 PM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Hello!</span>

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                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">7</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:16 PM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Heya</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:17 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Short questions that I have straight away:
* Multiple memories support?
* <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_instruction,_multiple_data" target="_blank">SIMD</a> support?
* <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computing)" target="_blank">Threading</a> support of some sort?
* <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_call" target="_blank">System Call</a> like things rather than "internally defined" calls only? With <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebAssembly#WASI" target="_blank">WASI</a> or whatever?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:19 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Multi-memory support is interesting, it's a fairly small spec change and not a large amount of work for implementors (like <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey" target="_blank">SpiderMonkey</a> or <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)" target="_blank">V8</a>) as they all have to support multiple memories in the runtime just not more than one in a specific instance. But there is very little pressure to implement because no one is asking for it yet. But it's on our radar</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:19 PM">12:19</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">SIMD support is coming soon, we're getting support in Firefox Nightly probably in the next month. V8 is further ahead than us, not sure about JSC/<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit" target="_blank">webkit</a>. People really want it, so it's a high priority</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708397857543290932" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708397857543290932">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:20 PM">12:20</div>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Threading support is complicated (at least on the web)</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:20 PM">12:20</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The problem is that with multiple threads and shared memory in a web browser, you can build a high resolution timer which would allow you to do side channel attacks to read process memory (ala <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability)" target="_blank">Spectre</a>)</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:20 PM</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes, I will be happy with single threading support.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:21 PM">12:21</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe the possibility to support <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroutine" target="_blank">coroutines</a> might be more than enough. e.g. allowing the application to have pseudo threads.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:21 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So short-term it's been disabled until Firefox is able to get better process isolation like Chrome has</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:22 PM">12:22</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ah yes, there's been discussions around stack primitves that could support that. That would also be useful for languages like Go which want to switch stacks for goroutines</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708398518620127365" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708398518620127365">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:22 PM">12:22</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's no formal proposal for it yet though, and interop with the web may be tricky? I'm unsure on that</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:23 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Longer question, 
* what's your general theory on how you expect applications to work in terms of streaming in wasm? (As in, how do you expect the structure of programs to change compared to the luxury of having larger file sizes etc)
* when it comes to safety with interfacing with C, I hear the idea is to have safe defaults and unsafe escape hatches, essentially, (so normally you have issues with bad pointers, arrays of wrong lengths etc) how is this planned to be implemented so far?</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:24 PM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:23 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Theoretically, coroutines don't need to be that special in implementation. But you do need to support different "locals" stack frames.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:24 PM">12:24</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For WASM, I am actually designing a language that directly maps to WASM's concepts and experimenting to see what it possible with the platform. I want to see what I can do with WASM with a minimal JavaScript platform layer in order to interact with the everything else. Especially since WASM is quite self contained.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:25 PM">(edited)</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708399452334850118" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708399452334850118">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:26 PM">12:26</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As my main goal is to effectively have a language that I can use to do proper typesetting and graphics, which CSS and JS sadly cannot do in a sane way at the moment.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:26 PM">(edited)</span>
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:26 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Wasm in general is in a unique position right now. The ecosystem is very new and young, so a lot of things are being built right now. The first generation of users are generally people porting (e.g. <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emscripten" target="_blank">emscripten</a>). For these users they're really not taking advantage of the platform completely and are just trying to bring their legacy applications completely as-is. Think like adobe photoshop. This is pretty cool and was enough to get the whole project started, but has a bunch of disadvantages like huge file sizes and slow loading</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:27 PM">12:27</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What's likely (in my opinion) to be happening in the next few years is people designing languages, frameworks, and tools that actually take advantage of wasm's strengths to build something new and better</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yep, exactly what we are excited to try to do.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We just don't have that yet however, so wasm on the web can be a bit clunky</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:28 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">#flashisback</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:28 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I have been extremely impressed by how well WASM has been designed, which is sadly uncommon for the web.</span>

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                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400036739940452" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400036739940452">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:28 PM">12:28</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And we have been discussing about how Flash was actually what designers and programmers wanted, even if it was actually quite a poor implementation of it.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:29 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="gingerBill#9999">@gingerBill</span> are you going to try to expose all of wasm's concepts like globals/tables/memories? or just be a good general purpose low level language?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400187059601429" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400187059601429">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:29 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I understand that WASM itself is going to be difficult to get things working well, especially taking into account accessibility issues, but it does allow for a good framework to extend to other things.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400239991586946" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400239991586946">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:29 PM">12:29</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="eqrion#8080">@eqrion</span> Both.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400300964315257" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400300964315257">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:29 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">WASM was uniquely designed compared to most of the web (it was actually designed)</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="rofl">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="🤣" src="files/1f923-1D049.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">4</span>
                            </div>
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="thumbsup">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="👍" src="files/1f44d-B3F5F.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">4</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400398955839558" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400398955839558">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:30 PM">12:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's also a small amount of (smart) people actually making decisions, which helps</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400438092759121" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400438092759121">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The separation of aesthetics and mechanics (as though presentation was not content) with html and css is something that has to be amended if you want something like flash, whether that's the intention or not. (For those who say wasm isn't supposed to replace JS or whatever.)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400543839551548" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400543839551548">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:30 PM">12:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Breaking things up like that just makes it impenetrable for designers no matter how you slice it.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400571576745984" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400571576745984">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I will agree to that, that the web was not really designed.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400632708726875" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400632708726875">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:31 PM">12:31</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The least worst bit about the web is HTTP (and its children).</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400663016767528" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400663016767528">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:31 PM">12:31</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And then HTML, and then JS, and then CSS.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400910220394526" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400910220394526">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:32 PM">12:32</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As many people know here, I think the idea of separating presentation (CSS) and content (HTML) was an extremely bad idea. And if you explain this to a graphic designer or typographer, they'll look at you with bewilderment as they'll say "but presentation is content"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400962213117975" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400962213117975">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">^</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:35 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708400998464618554" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708400998464618554">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">or as <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="simp#6533">@simp</span> correctly states, "aesthetics is mechanics, and mechanics is aesthetics"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401115300888707" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401115300888707">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:33 PM">12:33</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So for me, WASM actually seems like a way to bypass most of the bad mistakes of the past, even if it still has to contend with the mistakes of the past.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:33 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401147605680239" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401147605680239">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah I would agree (I used to work in layout + graphics at Mozilla before WASM). Separating presentation and content generally only works for simple user interfaces, which most web content was originally.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401265440456734" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401265440456734">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and if it's simple, the benefit is not even clear</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401306108297320" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401306108297320">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's interesting to see "CSS in JS" becoming popular as a response to this</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401361749803098" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401361749803098">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A web designed for scientists to share docs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401380347347026" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401380347347026">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What I find annoying is that none of the early "designers" of the web actually asked graphic designers or typographers or artists or developers what they actually wanted. It was purely designed by "engineers".</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401404586360872" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401404586360872">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Not the rich interaction we expect today.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401761047543859" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401761047543859">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So thank you for working on WASM.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401766760448040" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401766760448040">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There is however something useful about commonly understood metadata for an application (like HTML today) It's what enables search engines, ad blockers, and extensions to be useful.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401839812509806" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401839812509806">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:36 PM">12:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's just unfortunate that HTML and CSS are so poor at that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401918002593873" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401918002593873">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:36 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">HTML is not that bad compared to JS and CSS.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708401962634182656" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708401962634182656">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:36 PM">12:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">HTML is bad, don't get me wrong.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402003004489829" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402003004489829">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:36 PM">12:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it's the least worst about of the trinity.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402095513927682" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402095513927682">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't think any user interface language is sufficient for everyone's needs, but having some interoperability is helpful and is arguably why the web even still matters today.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402178460483765" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402178460483765">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:37 PM">12:37</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I'm torn, because it's also what makes it a poor application platform</span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:37 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes. It's a complicated problem.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402268210331679" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402268210331679">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:37 PM">12:37</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't disagree with that.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:38 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I saw there was a question about system calls and WASM, what was being asked there?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402475471733017" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402475471733017">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:38 PM">12:38</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That's one of my focuses right now</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:39 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Currently, the instruction <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">call</span> only works with internal funcidx.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402764581044227" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402764581044227">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:39 PM">12:39</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What I am suggesting is a way to call predefined platform defined things.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708402923985436813" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708402923985436813">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:40 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><a href="https://discordapp.com/channels/239737791225790464/707742863076622358/708398711188750396" onclick="scrollToMessage(event, '708398711188750396')">https://discordapp.com/channels/239737791225790464/707742863076622358/708398711188750396</a>
I had a question on C API safety, I'm not sure if that's close to your wheelhouse working on said syscalls.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:40 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You can do this already with the <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">import</span> things, but that is not really a common interface, akin to *nix's syscall.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708403121143021669" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708403121143021669">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:41 PM">12:41</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe the solution is that the thing already works, and nothing needs to be added.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:41 PM">(edited)</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708403334163202088" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708403334163202088">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:41 PM">12:41</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And that's actually a "solution" I am fine with.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:42 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ah yes. So the general thinking here as I understand it, is that WASM by default has no capabilities beyond compute. If you wish to give it a new capability, like access to a file or socket or DOM api, you need to pass it as an import to a WASM module</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:42 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Okay. That's perfectly fine.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:42 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Makes sense</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:42 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Now that works, but that means that all users of WASM have to come up with their own imports</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:43 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The reason I bring this up is because "WASI" seems a little confusing to me as a concept, if you are <u>not</u> dealing with something like C.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:43 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And so I think you mentioned this, but WASI is a project to come up with a standard interface of things you can import to do system things like UNIX</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708403722673193050" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708403722673193050">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:43 PM">12:43</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Why do you say that?</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:44 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So WASI is effectively a <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX" target="_blank">POSIX</a> emulation for WASM, correct?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708403869373169706" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708403869373169706">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:44 PM">12:44</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I might be wrong by the way.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:44 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's not intended to be POSIX compatible, but will have similarities and fulfill the same goal of a common system interface</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:45 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I meant POSIX/*NIX like interface.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708404190745198602" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708404190745198602">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:45 PM">12:45</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Not necessary strict POSIX. Sorry for the confusion</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:46 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ah yeah, compatibility with POSIX/*NIX etc is not a goal. You should be able to emulate most of those APIs performantly ontop of WASI, but it's intending to be something new that could correct some mistakes those APIs have</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708404644409507910" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708404644409507910">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:47 PM">12:47</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And fit into the WASM ecosystem in an idiomatic way</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:47 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Okay. Good to know.</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:47 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Notably <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmap" target="_blank">mmap</a> might not work the same way</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:48 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">With regards to WASM's design, Tables still partially confuse me. Because you can only have one, they seem a partially useless.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708405263073542218" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708405263073542218">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:49 PM">12:49</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And you can emulate them through other means.</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, they're a bit odd. They were originally added to solve the function pointer problem. So that C++ classes could store a <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_method_table" target="_blank">vtable</a>, with each function pointer in it as an index into table[0]. then when you wanted to call a virtual method you would use the call_indirect instruction</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708405455054962760" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708405455054962760">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:50 PM">12:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">which operates on tables</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708405521035690016" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708405521035690016">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:50 PM">12:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">New proposals are expanding the use cases</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708405552333586463" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708405552333586463">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But even that confuses me. Because you only need the data segment.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708405674799005797" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708405674799005797">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:51 PM">12:51</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I understand jump tables are really useful, but they are not exactly "jump tables" in the normal sense.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406035026673705" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406035026673705">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Hmm, I might not be understanding something. What do you mean by data segment? MVP wasm can't call a function determined dynamically at runtime except through call_indirect and tables</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406227541033082" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406227541033082">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:53 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was speaking in the hypothetically partially.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406521393840139" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406521393840139">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ah, yeah I suppose there are probably other ways of solving the problem. Why tables were designed this way and not other ways was a bit before my time.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406529103233055" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406529103233055">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Effectively, what I would like is this:
<div class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--multiline nohighlight">push parameters
push funcidx
call_index typeidx</div></span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406553241452705" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406553241452705">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:54 PM">12:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or whatever.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406604072091678" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406604072091678">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ahh.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406703238152203" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406703238152203">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:55 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Because I can store the funcidx in the datasegment or globals or locals or memories.</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406768178561047" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406768178561047">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:55 PM">12:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And then when I load that value, I can then call it indirectly</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406803284623401" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406803284623401">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:55 PM">12:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And it acts like a normal "pointer" per se.</span>

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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708406866379800677" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708406866379800677">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:55 PM">12:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Does this make sense?</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407236980113429" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407236980113429">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah that does. My best guess is that they chose the table design because it extends naturally to future extensions, like reference-types.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407334061211709" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407334061211709">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the docs on <a class="inserted-after" href="https://webassembly.org/" target="_blank">webassembly.org</a> suggest something to that effect</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:57 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407504845144134" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407504845144134">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I've been using the <a class="inserted-after" href="https://webassmbly.github.io/" target="_blank">webassmbly.github.io</a> docs as my source because they are the easiest to read, but they might not the best source of truth.</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407636000768121" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407636000768121">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:59 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, I'll have to ask around to see if there's a reason a call_index wasn't considered.</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407717982765118" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407717982765118">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 12:59 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes. That's effectively what I want. Because it would be safe too.</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407760223600691" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407760223600691">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:59 PM">12:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Because the <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">typeidx</span> would be an extra check before you call anything.</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407841077330040" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407841077330040">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 12:59 PM">12:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It wouldn't effect <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">call_indirect</span></span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708407997298114652" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708407997298114652">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:00 PM">13:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's personally my only complaint with WASM.</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:00 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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</div>



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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708408062637113394" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708408062637113394">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:00 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, they definitely could be equivalent with a couple less steps. But my best guess is that having a 'table' concept is more general and applies to other values you can't store in linear memory, like reference-types</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708408196015849482" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708408196015849482">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:01 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm not sure I agree with that actually.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708408231776747680" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708408231776747680">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:01 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think you may want to give a brief summary of the reference types proposal; I read it this morning but am still a little unclear on what it does and what problems it's solving</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708408342267297933" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708408342267297933">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:01 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, sure.</span>

                    </div>




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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Thank you <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708408859445821508" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708408859445821508">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:03 PM">13:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Thank you for all of your answers by the way <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




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        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:05 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--large" alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409371218018364" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409371218018364">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:05 PM">13:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(this is great)</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409418613522474" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409418613522474">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's rare I actually get to talk to the creators/designers of something</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409477790957580" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409477790957580">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">aside from yourself, presumably <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409489161715712" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409489161715712">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The basic problem is how can wasm call imports with values from the host. For example, if you have a wasm module in the browser and you want to call an import, which is some web-api that accepts a JS value. The existing value types (i32, i64, f32, f64) are too limited and so reference-types adds a new value type (externref) which can be used as the in parameters, results, locals of wasm functions and can hold any host value. On the web this is any JS value. Tables are also extended to be able to hold externref, so a Wasm module can then hold onto values from the host. externref's cannot be inspected or modified by Wasm (they're opaque) and so theres no security concerns about pointers be read</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409638139199620" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409638139199620">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Oh....</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409663930105891" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409663930105891">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's a small stepping stone into allowing wasm to interact more with the host</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409710369308712" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409710369308712">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I understand exactly what you mean by a reference type now!!!</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708409950195417169" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708409950195417169">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:08 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm more of a proxy to the creator/designers of wasm, I just do their engineering work <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410124791840898" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410124791840898">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:08 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That's fine. You probably understand the consequences of their decisions a lot more.</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410200154963978" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410200154963978">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:09 PM">13:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So for me, I don't think you need a "reference type", per se.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410252210602065" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410252210602065">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:09 PM">13:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For me, my solution is going to be a "fat pointer".</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410306233368677" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410306233368677">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:09 PM">13:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Where this pointer contains two things: <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">memidx</span> and memory offset for the "memory".</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410827279171664" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410827279171664">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What's the use case for these fat pointers, or what are you doing with them?</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410844387475517" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410844387475517">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I know this approach requires two "registers" and doesn't store any type information.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708410917703909448" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708410917703909448">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:12 PM">13:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it's probably the approach that many compilers to WASM use for normal pointers.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411004907945994" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411004907945994">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:12 PM">13:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But they don't need to be "fat pointers" because there is only one "memory" at the moment.</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411301906350090" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411301906350090">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:13 PM">13:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And most languages nowadays assume a single memory space.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411306813816842" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411306813816842">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:13 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If I understand correctly, you may have an issue as memidx's for loads/stores are static and can't be specified at runtime</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411325935517716" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411325935517716">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:13 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We don't live in the 16-bit world any more.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411376946774026" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411376946774026">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:13 PM">13:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes, that is a problem.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411435650383962" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411435650383962">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:14 PM">13:14</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I personally don't want that.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411509553758288" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411509553758288">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:14 PM">13:14</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am just spit balling at the moment.</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411579108163614" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411579108163614">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Oh yeah, no problem</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411630651703318" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411630651703318">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="gingerBill#9999">@gingerBill</span> I assume you still want non-fat pointers for the "main" memory space</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411725938032770" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411725938032770">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:15 PM">13:15</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but I agree with the fat pointer model 100%, it gives you incredible flexibility</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411804430106664" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411804430106664">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:15 PM">13:15</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so you store <em>which memory</em> as well as the actual address within that memory</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411828450885775" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411828450885775">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> You can encode the memory space in the type system itself e.g. NEAR and FAR pointers are back, baby!</span>

                    </div>




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                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="distHappy">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="distHappy" src="files/366623288081907713-5D000.png" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708411884755484714" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708411884755484714">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">lol</span>

                    </div>




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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And many tools like <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM" target="_blank">LLVM</a> already support this.</span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:16 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was about to say, LLVM already covers this, so having it work for wasm is all the easier.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:16 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Very much so.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708412184287248457" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708412184287248457">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:17 PM">13:17</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't know if I am probably not the normal person questioning WASM.</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:17 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think one of the stated goals of tables in WASM is to make things as opaque to the module as possible; how would you choose to achieve those security goals in this model?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Would be interesting to see how it works in practice in any case when more memories are added.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To be clear, I don't know if any of these ideas the best yet.</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413175955062844" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413175955062844">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:21 PM">13:21</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It might be that a single "memory" <u>is</u> the best option.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413208041488447" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413208041488447">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:21 PM">13:21</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Oooo</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413270964305952" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413270964305952">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:21 PM">13:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That reminds me, will we be able to have memory protections on "memories"?</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413363331268629" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413363331268629">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:21 PM">13:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">e.g. I want to reserve this first page so that if you try to read/write from it, it raises an exception of sorts.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:22 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That's been proposed many times <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"> But not yet</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:22 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Good to know <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:23 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The problem is ideally you'd have granularity of a page size, but the wasm page size is way too big</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413820149694484" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413820149694484">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:23 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">64K is quite large, yes.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:23 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And there's also concerns about multithreading that would make it challenging for all hosts to implement</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:23 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">16K might have been a better size.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708413957894832166" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708413957894832166">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:24 PM">13:24</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I know typically 4K is a page size on most OSes.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708414276980703403" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708414276980703403">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/0-EB806.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's been talk about allowing users to specify the page size as a parameter to their memory type. Along with some additional information, like heuristics on which memory (in multi memory scenarios) is the main memory, if any, and should be given improved performance</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708414362452492339" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708414362452492339">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:25 PM">13:25</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We do a lot of tricks to make memory access safe and efficient</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708414654212210728" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708414654212210728">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:26 PM">13:26</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="simp#6533">@simp</span> what were you wondering about c-api's? was it about the wasm c-api? or c languages running in wasm?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">c-api</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708414872706089022" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708414872706089022">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:27 PM">13:27</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><a href="https://discordapp.com/channels/239737791225790464/707742863076622358/708398711188750396" onclick="scrollToMessage(event, '708398711188750396')">https://discordapp.com/channels/239737791225790464/707742863076622358/708398711188750396</a></span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708415005678108693" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708415005678108693">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:28 PM">13:28</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Basically my understanding is there is a default, then a unsafe escape hatch?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708415056983097455" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708415056983097455">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:28 PM">13:28</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or that was the proposal?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708415112276344963" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708415112276344963">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:28 PM">13:28</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Things like bad pointers or array lengths</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Side note: The other night, <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="bvisness#0001">@bvisness</span> and I were discussing about how to make a WASM "linker" per se. And effectively what would be needed is just a have a runtime specified the data segment offsets. e.g.

WASM module #1 (data-segment-offset: 1024):
foo (offset = + 0)
bar (offset = + 4)
WASM module #2 (data-segment-offset: 2048):
foo (offset = + 0)
bar (offset = + 8)</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708415506071158905" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708415506071158905">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:30 PM">13:30</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This should work already, right?</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708415565722812447" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708415565722812447">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:30 PM">13:30</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">because the data segment elements take an "expr" for the offset.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708416098948743270" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708416098948743270">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah, that's been a point of contention that I've only heard a bit about. As I understand it, the wasm-c-api has some methods that are easy to use incorrectly if you pass in values with the wrong length, etc. There's been debate about whether it's something we could even improve as you can basically screw up C api's in any way and not everything, like bad pointers, can be checked. But the community group did just vote to add some safety checks to raise the bar a bit, <a href="https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasm-c-api/pull/134" target="_blank">https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasm-c-api/pull/134</a></span>

                    </div>


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                                            <div class="chatlog__embed-title">
                                                    <a class="chatlog__embed-title-link" href="https://github.com/WebAssembly/wasm-c-api/pull/134">
                                                        <div class="chatlog__markdown chatlog__markdown-preserve">Add safety checks to several C API functions. by sunfishcode · Pull...</div>
                                                    </a>
                                            </div>

                                            <div class="chatlog__embed-description">
                                                <div class="chatlog__markdown chatlog__markdown-preserve">This patch illustrates what safe interfaces for wasm_func_call,
wasm_global_set, wasm_instance_new, wasm_table_new, wasm_table_grow,
wasm_global_new, wasm_table_get, wasm_table_set might look like....</div>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708416187242905601" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708416187242905601">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:33 PM">13:33</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And the idea is, like you said, to have unsafe escape hatches for if the checks hurt performance too much</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:33 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ahh</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708416439966629888" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708416439966629888">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:34 PM">13:34</div>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That makes sense to have the hatches for that case.</span>

                    </div>




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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I've got to get heading, but if anyone has more wasm questions feel free to send them my way. Would also be happy to join a wasm channel if there is one</span>

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                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="pray">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="🙏" src="files/1f64f-BB864.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(I am definitely in the sceptic camp which is why I ask, thanks for the link to the proper discussion)</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Thank you very much for you time and answers.</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It has been wonderful <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well, wasm might become a bigger topic going forward</span>

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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So that might happen</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708417472163872798" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708417472163872798">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:38 PM">13:38</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Otherwise thank you a ton for your time!</span>

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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:38 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I can keep rounding up questions and nagging you in person <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708417575427506287" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708417575427506287">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:38 PM">13:38</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">thanks so much for doing this</span>

                    </div>




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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="eqrion#8080" data-user-id="368592190768939030">eqrion</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:39 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">No problem, it was fun!</span>

                    </div>




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                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="thumbsup">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="👍" src="files/1f44d-B3F5F.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:53 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="gingerBill#9999">@gingerBill</span> was the discussion between yourself and bvisness public (here or on the Odin server)?</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 01:54 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It was on the past stream.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708421597286891531" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708421597286891531">
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                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:54 PM">13:54</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I figured it out.</span>

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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708421651523698761" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708421651523698761">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 01:54 PM">13:54</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">My past stream with WASM experimentation.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708426253622968351" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708426253622968351">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:13 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well I’m tempted to say we should revisit this topic in a while when we’ve all experimented further with WASM</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708426462428004445" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708426462428004445">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:13 PM">14:13</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I was kind of surprised to see that I think most of us were on board with a rather browser-like direction for things, now that it turns out WASM is actually good</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Completely agree, I think especially the feasibility of OS-like forms will be more easy to grok once we have some non-trivial demos completed.</span>

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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:21 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I am not necessarily onboard, but rather, this is the near future and I am going to have to accept it.</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708428324007051337" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708428324007051337">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:21 PM">14:21</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Native will always be better.</span>

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        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e7c2c344cc7aadf61f4475f6f55095a6-D5B11.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="" title="simp#6533" data-user-id="130979493027250176">simp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:21 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The distribution just can't be beat, frankly.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708433874690113618" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708433874690113618">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:43 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It also helps when people want to test things. You don't have to download and install anything. It just works straight from your browser.</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708433901365756004" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708433901365756004">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:43 PM">14:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I can completely understand it.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434162562105404" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434162562105404">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think if we revive this conversation at some point tonight we should focus on OS stuff</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434222687322182" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434222687322182">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:44 PM">14:44</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">given that we got thoroughly off track on WASM stuff <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434257529274450" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434257529274450">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:44 PM">14:44</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">not complaining, it's all related and very interesting</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434709025390652" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434709025390652">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:46 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I agree.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434794249453638" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434794249453638">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:46 PM">14:46</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I think it's completely related to the topic of "The Future of Operating Systems in an Internet World"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708434826931208274" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708434826931208274">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:47 PM">14:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To go completely in a different direction:</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435021022887987" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435021022887987">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:47 PM">14:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think "the cloud" (another person's computer) is the emergences of older paradigms with computing.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435655671283742" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435655671283742">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer" target="_blank">Mainframe</a>?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435661576994856" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435661576994856">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:50 PM">14:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435711514378352" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435711514378352">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:50 PM">14:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There seems to be a "recurring patterns in history" going on</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435807517671506" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435807517671506">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:50 PM">14:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Perhaps there will be a swing back toward local hardware and self-ownership of data/programs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708435909556830258" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708435909556830258">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:51 PM">14:51</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it seems increasingly unlikely without a massive upheaval, some kind of sea change</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436212188446780" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436212188446780">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:52 PM">14:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well - I hinted earlier at the discussion I'd like to have around data ownership and security especially as it pertains to the ever-increasing amount of (data-generating) devices in people's homes</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436306405097513" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436306405097513">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:52 PM">14:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think there is space for something like a "home server" in the average household</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436515264659537" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436515264659537">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:53 PM">14:53</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">For many people, having a central powerhouse which other screen-having devices and smart devices remote into would be more cost effective than having a half-dozen or more expensive devices which need to be periodically upgraded</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436530871402527" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436530871402527">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:53 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's all about user experience, and the user experience of having your work everywhere beats the user experience of owning a paid copy of Excel, I guess</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436583023509606" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436583023509606">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(desktops, monitors, laptops)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436641387118993" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436641387118993">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:54 PM">14:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Sure</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436844110545017" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436844110545017">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:55 PM">14:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What I'm talking about isn't "killing" the cloud, it's returning the option of self-ownership of data and logic</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436901845139527" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436901845139527">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:55 PM">14:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You might want your work files available everywhere</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708436963320922226" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708436963320922226">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:55 PM">14:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But maybe you want to back up your pictures yourself</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437107366035568" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437107366035568">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:56 PM">14:56</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Certainly running all of your smart devices off of one local logic center/interface to the web would be good</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437238031188009" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437238031188009">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:56 PM">14:56</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As opposed to having dozens of endpoint devices which are all potential security vulnerabilities, all transmitting metadata to the cloud all of the time</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437277029826580" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437277029826580">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:56 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">absolutely</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437362048499784" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437362048499784">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think of the "home server" as a practical hardware decision economically and functionally</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437390506721410" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437390506721410">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But also as a gateway for personal information</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437577950036028" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437577950036028">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:58 PM">14:58</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This would be designed from the ground up to be configurable, user profile-focused, and to make explicit which people and services have access to which data</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437363487145995" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437363487145995">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and I think a lot of people would respond positively to a security-minded IoT system <em>if</em> the user experience was good</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437606010192042" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437606010192042">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The thing I wonder about is whether the incentives will really ever be there to own the data yourself. If a company like Google will give you lots of data storage and a bunch of programs for free, why would you bother to set it up yourself, pay someone for backup, etc.?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437637467472003" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437637467472003">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Nothing leaves your home without your permission, and without your visibility</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437654827565106" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437654827565106">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Obviously there will be people who want that, but many won't care enough to offset the cost</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:58 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437735853260812" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437735853260812">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 02:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That's part of the sell of this</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437763481010248" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437763481010248">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:58 PM">14:58</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Because it's economically viable</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708437994344022090" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708437994344022090">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:59 PM">14:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Instead of a gaming computer for one kid, laptops for every family member, Xbox One and PS4 in the living room, plus an Apple TV which doesn't work with your Windows devices, iPads, a mix of Android and iOS phones, etc</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438071418552410" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438071418552410">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 02:59 PM">14:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You have one central device that provides all of this functionality to a series of screens</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438101642707026" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438101642707026">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:00 PM">15:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which are just thin clients</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438164250951753" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438164250951753">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:00 PM">15:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(You'd still have phones because you want portability)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438284782665881" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438284782665881">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:00 PM">15:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So if you want the Gaming package, you splurge for the gaming upgrade to the home server</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438361508937728" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438361508937728">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:01 PM">15:01</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And you can run it off any screen in the home</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438451749519410" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438451749519410">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:01 PM">15:01</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You just hook up your peripherals, sign into your user account (fingerprint reader controller?), and go</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438720453279754" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438720453279754">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:02 PM">15:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This could scale all the way down to like, a Raspberry Pi type device for people whose needs are very limited</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708438792167620679" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708438792167620679">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:02 PM">15:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(single person "web browsing", limited media consumption, no gaming)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:02 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708439210289397760" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708439210289397760">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:04 PM">15:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So the way this relates to the internet is that you'd essentially have an ecosystem where you have one internet endpoint in the home, which you fully control, with rich privacy/configurability settings, and then ~1 smartphone per person on top of that (which could route through the server while home, and remote in with a secure tunnel for home access while away)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708439415407771677" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708439415407771677">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:05 PM">15:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So you'd have an OS where <em>driving functionality</em> is a first-class design consideration</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708439672128536707" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708439672128536707">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:06 PM">15:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And sites/apps would include little logic bundles for controlling home devices which would link up to your system as building blocks in your configuration (in a user-friendly sort of way) - a home command center, roughly</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708439750809354320" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708439750809354320">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:06 PM">15:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think we're driving toward something like this, except highly cloud-driven, anyway</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708439970926559363" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708439970926559363">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:07 PM">15:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">At some point companies will figure out IoT and how it relates to things like identity, where your devices will track your location and status via a smartwatch and do things like turn on lights accordingly</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708440033048395806" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708440033048395806">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:07 PM">15:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(knowing who you are in the family, for example, or whether you're a guest)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708440243157598210" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708440243157598210">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:08 PM">15:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The current software/hardware stack is ill-suited for this (particularly the guest/edge network experience) but they'll retrofit it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708440336392781847" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708440336392781847">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:08 PM">15:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Anyway &lt;/rant&gt;, want to give people a chance to respond</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449387185176647" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449387185176647">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I have plenty of my own thoughts about this that I can save for another time</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449435411284069" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449435411284069">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:45 PM">15:45</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But as far as the networking side goes, it’s an interesting consideration</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449526452715684" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449526452715684">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:45 PM">15:45</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I’m interested in being able to move easily between local and remote, offline and online</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449543779385455" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449543779385455">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We could have a more expansive IoT/smarthome fishbowl at some point</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449564390195280" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449564390195280">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And home network stuff certainly does play into that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449604978343947" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449604978343947">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I agree, the context here is about how this relates to networked OSes</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449629758291989" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449629758291989">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As far as what those computers are actually running, I dunno</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449761035812897" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449761035812897">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:46 PM">15:46</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To go back to an earlier topic, you mentioned that you like the paradigm of apps (as presented by mobile devices)</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449824269271093" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449824269271093">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:46 PM">15:46</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There’s no coherent notion of an “app” for most web programs though</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449892946804847" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449892946804847">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:46 PM">15:46</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And I’m wondering if there would be benefit in such a thing</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:47 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




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        </div>
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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708449927596081212" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708449927596081212">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:47 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right, I like the paradigm, but not as <em>the</em> paradigm going forward</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450009883869366" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450009883869366">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:47 PM">15:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I do think there is an important conceptual distinction between a packaged app and a web page, of course</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450086304350319" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450086304350319">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:47 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I need to learn more about <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_web_application" target="_blank">progressive web apps</a>; some people are already pushing in that direction</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450346300604508" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450346300604508">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:48 PM">15:48</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I’m not actually sure what the value proposition is for apps like that right now, since pretty much all web software needs a live connection to be useful at all</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450432078577745" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450432078577745">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:49 PM">15:49</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Browsers are just kind of nerfed if they’re not connected because they can’t access files easily</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450713545736283" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450713545736283">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:50 PM">15:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe if we had a properly networked file system instead of Google Drive and Dropbox, web apps could actually just open your files directly.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450767253536809" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450767253536809">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--large" alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708450847822184448" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708450847822184448">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:50 PM">15:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This is a big part of my own project... I want something <em>like</em> <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary_File_System" target="_blank">IPFS</a>/<a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kademlia" target="_blank">Kademlia</a></span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:50 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451165247111209" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451165247111209">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:52 PM">15:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Want something where the local file storage is just one instance of a massive interconnected web of distributed file storage (with permissions/user account discrimination, ofc)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451267537797152" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451267537797152">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:52 PM">15:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That doesn't mean all connections need to be peer-to-peer or there's no place for central hubs, centralized services/storage</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:52 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451380674822146" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451380674822146">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/418ec586b1074c5304d2bdfde2d725c9-F2143.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="gingerBill#9999" data-user-id="239738952779563008">gingerBill</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I need to sleep now. Goodnight everyone <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451415156326480" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451415156326480">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Good night, Bill! <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🌃" title="night_with_stars" src="files/twemoji_1f303.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451440036806659" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451440036806659">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:53 PM">15:53</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Sleep well</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451689333784576" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451689333784576">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 03:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I would expect a central hub to be very valuable; I think most peer-to-peer stuff would be a huge pain</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451791737454648" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451791737454648">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:54 PM">15:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Unless one of your “peers” was a sysadmin with a gigabit connection</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708451838462263336" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708451838462263336">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:54 PM">15:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In other words, a hub</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708452082528550964" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708452082528550964">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:55 PM">15:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Could you have a system that just uses URLs for all paths, including “local” files? I bet you could</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:55 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708452844214157402" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708452844214157402">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:58 PM">15:58</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The doubt I keep coming back to is whether you’ll be able to beat the value of a giant company giving you everything for free</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708452919086678077" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708452919086678077">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:58 PM">15:58</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And that kind of shapes how I think about this web os thing in general</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708453080580227124" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708453080580227124">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:59 PM">15:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You can come up with an amazing system that allows you to really own and access your data anywhere, but if it’s not free, who will use it?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708453149609820161" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708453149609820161">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 03:59 PM">15:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe total self-hosting is the only way to go</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708453858434875433" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708453858434875433">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">URLs <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="eyes_shaking" title="eyes_shaking" src="files/657399731273596929.gif"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708453905322999849" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708453905322999849">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:02 PM">16:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm ditching HTTP</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454033119248425" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454033119248425">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:03 PM">16:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I like the IPFS model of using a <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree" target="_blank">Merkel tree</a></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454063280488510" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454063280488510">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:03 PM">16:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Where the address is a hash key</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454158386331678" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454158386331678">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:03 PM">16:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The actual endpoint can be stored wherever or in multiple places</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454353958076507" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454353958076507">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:04 PM">16:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Obviously there's no getting rid of IP, so at some point you need to fetch an IP address, but I don't think URLs or IPs are a desirable thing to expose to the average user</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454555200782489" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454555200782489">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:05 PM">16:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I haven't yet, but I'll be exploring some different ways of handling "breadcrumbs" generically, to a point krixano made in <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention">#general</span></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454654798856212" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454654798856212">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:05 PM">16:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Regarding how to refer to individual pages or states of an app/site</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:05 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454728287125554" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454728287125554">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What beef do you have with URLs?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454774789636217" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454774789636217">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">They feel terminal-y</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454838605840565" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454838605840565">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:06 PM">16:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Average person doesn't understand what most of a URL is/does/means</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454901973385246" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454901973385246">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well a string globally identifying something is still desirable, archaic structure aside</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454905240748058" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454905240748058">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And it exposes information the user doesn't usually even want/need</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708454993098833943" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708454993098833943">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:07 PM">16:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">A <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_unique_identifier" target="_blank">UUID</a> is just fine as well</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455116411240448" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455116411240448">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:07 PM">16:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The thing that's useful with URLs is the breadcrumbs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455167070306324" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455167070306324">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">No domain names? I’m sure Merkle trees are a wonderful technical solution, but there’s a lot of useful stuff in a URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455358406066258" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455358406066258">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:08 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Domain names maybe, they're fine as a globally unique/memorable mapping for an IP address</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455387539570708" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455387539570708">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:08 PM">16:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But still, really, a technical detail</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455487003426866" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455487003426866">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:09 PM">16:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If you imagine 100-years-in-the-future-tech, are you imagining URLs still being a thing?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455645711564872" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455645711564872">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:09 PM">16:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Discovery is done through search</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455744961511434" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455744961511434">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:10 PM">16:10</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And realistically, most of the time someone visits a specific site, it's through search, cached history, or bookmarks/links of some kind</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455927094968532" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455927094968532">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:10 PM">16:10</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I can type <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">a+m+a+z+enter</span> into my address bar and get the Amazon homepage</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708455956224278588" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708455956224278588">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:11 PM">16:11</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I never need to know "amazon.com"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456109522026518" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456109522026518">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe true, but search isn’t everything</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456143000699011" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456143000699011">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:11 PM">16:11</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Search is useful but fuzzy</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456346986610790" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456346986610790">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:12 PM">16:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And besides, if you want to move toward people hosting their own stuff, you want something clear for normal humans</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456422379225089" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456422379225089">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:12 PM">16:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Domain names are pretty clear. TLDs aside.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456433443799081" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456433443799081">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:12 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You see a commercial for a new widget delivery service</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456453807013921" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456453807013921">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:13 PM">16:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Do you remember the URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456497700536320" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456497700536320">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:13 PM">16:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or do you remember some keywords, maybe the name of the service, and Google it?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456627744800879" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456627744800879">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:13 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Of course I google it, but I feel pretty strongly that stable, human-readable names are really important for a network</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456707554017320" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456707554017320">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">When does the average user interact with these names, nowadays?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456743184892055" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456743184892055">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:14 PM">16:14</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Google Amazon
Bookmark</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456791679172611" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456791679172611">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:14 PM">16:14</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Now I have Amazon forever without caring about the URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708456940640010250" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708456940640010250">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You just told me you wanted people to host their own stuff, presumably share it with people sometimes</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457010303205426" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457010303205426">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:15 PM">16:15</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And you want people to share...an IP address?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457050119864431" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457050119864431">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:15 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">No</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457118667112468" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457118667112468">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:15 PM">16:15</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I share my folder with you, it shows up as "Folder Name"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457149969334333" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457149969334333">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:15 PM">16:15</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Doesn't need to be universally unique</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457249659420743" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457249659420743">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:16 PM">16:16</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And you don't need to care what the folder icon that shows up on your side maps to in terms of address</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457280739475497" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457280739475497">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:16 PM">16:16</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right? Just like Dropbox/Google Drive</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457391523495956" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457391523495956">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:16 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Files aren’t the only use case for this stuff, and besides, domain names are the only guarantee I have that the site I’m on is legit</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457461132296192" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457461132296192">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:17 PM">16:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It’s an authoritative and readable name for the service I want to access</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457534272438293" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457534272438293">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:17 PM">16:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Whether I use it for navigation or not, I think it’s extremely important</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457547497209857" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457547497209857">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:17 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well the model I'm thinking about doesn't have browsers or "sites"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457578279075850" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457578279075850">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:17 PM">16:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's not clear where a URL would be useful</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457623703519315" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457623703519315">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:17 PM">16:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">In the same way that you don't interact with URLs using smartphone apps</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457682713182288" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457682713182288">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:17 PM">16:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You follow some links, maybe, that take you out to the browser</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457745702977667" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457745702977667">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:18 PM">16:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But you can download and use the app without ever seeing a URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457776623517756" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457776623517756">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:18 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That’s only because you have a centralized App Store</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457818872741918" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457818872741918">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:18 PM">16:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Thanks phone for capitalizing App Store</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457857678311444" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457857678311444">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:18 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Haha</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457953908359189" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457953908359189">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:18 PM">16:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well, I think it's useful maybe to have app stores, or rather something like "curated collections"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708457971939541039" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708457971939541039">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:19 PM">16:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Not one big centralized one</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458038427779182" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458038427779182">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:19 PM">16:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But somewhere you can go, like a search engine, that feeds you results</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458055142211655" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458055142211655">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:19 PM">16:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And there's some trust involved</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458085148131418" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458085148131418">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If you don’t have domains, then you’ll need some other form of identity</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458176487620609" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458176487620609">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:19 PM">16:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">People need to be able to trust that they are in the right place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458183370473554" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458183370473554">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To the App Store the app is some kind of UUID</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458205700816946" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458205700816946">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:19 PM">16:19</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To the user, it's just an icon and a name</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458323401244674" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458323401244674">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:20 PM">16:20</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The App Store itself is the trust broker</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458576372432927" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458576372432927">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:21 PM">16:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It might be useful for power users to have some debug info they can view that gives them some kind of verification</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458642432589922" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458642432589922">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:21 PM">16:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But maybe that comes in the form of whitelists, like you see in modern browsers</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458687240339502" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458687240339502">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:21 PM">16:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You visit a known bad site, browser says no bueno</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458761211084943" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458761211084943">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:22 PM">16:22</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You visit a known trusted site, the browser displays a happy green shield</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459245519241419" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459245519241419">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and/or it shows the logo</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>
<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458437733908603" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458437733908603">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">URLs discussion is interesting. I guess the thing I am thinking about is this comment:
<div class="chatlog__markdown-quote"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-border"></div><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-content">If you don’t have domains, then you’ll need some other form of identity</div></div></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458510114881558" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458510114881558">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:21 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">How does this differ from identifiers in a programming language?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458636418089012" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458636418089012">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:21 PM">16:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Like, why do we <em>need</em> text to <em>identify</em> something?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708458671650373722" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708458671650373722">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:21 PM">16:21</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Instead of having text <em>label</em> something that is actually unique?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459333452562573" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459333452562573">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Anyway what Ryan is saying is valid; I think the real question is, in a system without URLs and familiar means of superficial verification, how can we broker trust in a massively distributed online environment</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459382433906710" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459382433906710">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So, on textual labels instead of textual identifiers, I just realized that this is basically what URLs are, right?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459408786587806" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459408786587806">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:24 PM">16:24</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I mean, the URLs are identified as requiring uniqueness</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459485299212309" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459485299212309">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:25 PM">16:25</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But they really redirect to some IP address, right? (Internet noob coming through)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459528114405436" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459528114405436">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes, potentially one of many</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459541855076382" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459541855076382">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Some IP address or range of IPs, yes</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:25 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459563053219910" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459563053219910">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Isn't that what a DNS is for?</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:25 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459577502466048" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459577502466048">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the domain goes through DNS which translates to an IP</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459629159514162" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459629159514162">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">which you then make a request to</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459618388541520" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459618388541520">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right, that's the purpose of DNS</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which is a major attack/problem vector, btw</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Ahhh right okay. So the DNS is basically a "hash table" where you feed the domain in, and get out an IP</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the request then includes the full URL again</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459774429364234" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459774429364234">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:26 PM">16:26</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">a big hierarchical and distributed hash table yeah</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:26 PM">(edited)</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459857254285382" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459857254285382">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:26 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right, that makes sense</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708459949474447372" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708459949474447372">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:26 PM">16:26</div>
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So, what's the benefit of having those be textual? It seems that URLs are obviously not human readable, at least in many cases</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If we want a human-friendly interface, it seems like we should just have that thing</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The benefit of a Merkle tree model is that the mapping is universal, it does not require a broker (still need a gateway or something to map to IPs, though)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:27 PM">(edited)</span>
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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460093825482875" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460093825482875">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">domain names were meant to be human friendly</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460239044739107" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460239044739107">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and it provides some indirection so you can change IPs without needing to update hundreds of settings to point to the new server</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460148670201887" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460148670201887">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah I don’t know why you say they’re unreadable</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Aside from query parameters</span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Hmmm. Well it does seem that just the <em>domain name</em> is readable, usually</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:27 PM</span>
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                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It is the extension that is unreadable</span>

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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">channels/239737791225790464/707742863076622358</span></span>

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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460259890561114" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460259890561114">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:28 PM">16:28</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This is why</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460274524357075" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460274524357075">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><div class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--multiline nohighlight">https://www.amazon.com/gp/buy/thankyou/handlers/display.html?ie=UTF8&amp;asins=B07K4SSNDM&amp;isRefresh=1&amp;orderId=111-4775530-2979447&amp;purchaseId=106-9455094-0353063&amp;ref_=chk_typ_browserRefresh&amp;viewId=ThankYouCart</div></span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
</div>



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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460357848662127" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460357848662127">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I get that within an app URLs become silly</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460410810007583" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460410810007583">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:28 PM">16:28</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That’s not really what I’m concerned about here</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460413263675413" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460413263675413">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well, right, but the web is consistently moving towards more app-like, right?</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460419622371350" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460419622371350">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We can distinguish this GET request nonsense from what a URL fundamentally <em>is</em>, though</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460452644126720" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460452644126720">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You could certainly mask the latter parts away, I don’t care</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460493450379317" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460493450379317">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:29 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the readability of URL paths has come down a lot since web became more app like</span>

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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460669225402459" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460669225402459">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:29 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I get the desire to have some human-readable, memorable, top-level universally unique address mapping</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460732580233338" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460732580233338">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:30 PM">16:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it's not really useful in practice almost ever from a user perspective</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460739505160272" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460739505160272">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think the domain is by far the most important part, and the part I am pretty bullish about</span>

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            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Domains clearly indicate ownership</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460857427886271" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460857427886271">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Even "using the URL to verify I'm at the right site" requires you to know what the legitimate URL is</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708460931210018929" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708460931210018929">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:30 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or know what legitimate URLs usually look like</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461016962564106" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461016962564106">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:31 PM">16:31</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which is playing a metagame that the average user isn't really equipped to care about, much less play</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461085820190760" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461085820190760">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:31 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">or that you know that the certificate will be a proof and that you know what the proper certificate looks like</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461152501366814" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461152501366814">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:31 PM">16:31</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">which is a step further down the trust chain</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461303341252678" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461303341252678">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I know that all the details of <em>actually</em> verifying trust will be outside of a user’s grasp, but consider that my mom gets spam emails from “godaddy” that are not from a godaddy domain</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461450653466667" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461450653466667">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The fact that the domain can not be spoofed, in a system that verifies everything else, is really the only thing that can give a human confidence that they are in the right place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461320009154591" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461320009154591">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:32 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Even with the web as it is today, if you replaced the address bar with a search bar 100% completely, I really, really don't think much would change for the average user</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461533113483286" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461533113483286">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(it 100% can be spoofed)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461589392785529" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461589392785529">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> the browsers have basically done that already</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:33 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461657290178560" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461657290178560">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">agreed, aside from actually displaying the URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461706484908062" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461706484908062">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:33 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You can achieve all levels of “trust” and verification that you are connected to the “right” computer, but unless a human can look at something and see a familiar name, they cannot actually be confident that they are in the right place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461735232798812" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461735232798812">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's more search bar than address bar now, in that they clearly prioritize search</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461812558856255" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461812558856255">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Like, googlee.com could have a good cert and look exactly like the real thing</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708461909346746418" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708461909346746418">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:34 PM">16:34</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it’s clearly <em>wrong</em> and a human needs to be able to see this.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462022874103818" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462022874103818">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Just throwing ideas out there, what if websites were mapped spatially?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462164800831579" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462164800831579">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:35 PM">16:35</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">No idea if this is a good idea, but if someone tells you to go to somewhere, what if they could use spatially contextual information?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462190331559947" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462190331559947">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I have no idea what you mean</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462226285002753" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462226285002753">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Grid of apps on your phone</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462247403585577" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462247403585577">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:36 PM">16:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You don't type in the app you want to run</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462262049832960" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462262049832960">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:36 PM">16:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You go to the right folder and run it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462318912012308" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462318912012308">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:36 PM">16:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You'd need some sort of fast "acceleration structure"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462341792202796" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462341792202796">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:36 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">search is inevitable</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462360905515008" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462360905515008">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:36 PM">16:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you searched an app store to get those apps</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462373710856293" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462373710856293">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:36 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">To traverse to the thing you're looking at, or search them</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462422704259192" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462422704259192">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:36 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">we're talking about basically all software being available instantaneously to you in some form</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462624555270164" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462624555270164">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right, but I'm saying what if the "globally unique ID" <em>was</em> the location within a tree?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462719828885534" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462719828885534">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:37 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">how big can a tree get before any spatial sense breaks down?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462775453614080" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462775453614080">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:38 PM">16:38</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I guarantee I have too many programs on this computer alone for that to work</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462789659983893" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462789659983893">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:38 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You can <a class="inserted-after" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_detail_(computer_graphics)" target="_blank">LOD</a> it, right?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708462821142298654" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708462821142298654">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:38 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and how do you guard against close proximity from causing issues</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463023324397628" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463023324397628">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:39 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">e.g. googlee</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463152777658379" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463152777658379">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:39 PM">16:39</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but more broadly, my point is that there is a very important human factor to consider in these designs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463305659908118" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463305659908118">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:40 PM">16:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and we run the risk of moving from systems designed for human readability (admittedly with some archaic flaws), to systems that technically solve things more robustly but that nobody will actually be confident using.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463438351040553" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463438351040553">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:40 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I would say that URLs actually provide more attack vector than cover by virtue of universal names</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463493615190106" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463493615190106">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:40 PM">16:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Sure you can make sure it's <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">google.com</span> and not <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">googlee.com</span></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463510232760380" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463510232760380">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:41 PM">16:41</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Do you <em>ever</em> do that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463568894427136" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463568894427136">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you don't hover over links to see what site they're taking you to?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463537600725063" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463537600725063">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That is why I posit some way of having spatial information.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463572707049573" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463572707049573">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You know it's not Google because it's not in the right place <em>spatially</em></span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:41 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463594668556402" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463594668556402">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But maybe you type <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">google.co</span> and it takes you to a completely different website that spoofs google</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463682514059264" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463682514059264">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">googlee.com</span></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463745692729424" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463745692729424">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:41 PM">16:41</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's a typo, you don't double-check, you get your credit card details stolen</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463757533118466" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463757533118466">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:42 PM">16:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Because of a name</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463664235151382" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463664235151382">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think TLDs are goofy and wrong</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463793209868398" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463793209868398">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:42 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and what's your proposed alternative?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463865276530798" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463865276530798">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:42 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">or getting tricked by unicode characters that have the exact same glyph</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708463908473536532" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708463908473536532">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:42 PM">16:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">goog1e.com or googIe.com</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:43 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464007757168680" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464007757168680">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:43 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm not proposing an alternative, I don't think we need one to have a parallel system that operates at pretty much the same security re: spoofing</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464035385049180" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464035385049180">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:43 PM">16:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I do have an idea</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464089294438481" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464089294438481">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:43 PM">16:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What DNS provides (and email) is universally federated identity</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:43 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464157401415802" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464157401415802">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:43 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I guess what I am getting at more broadly with the "spatial information" thing is that, if the goal is to make it <em>obvious</em> that something is legit and not a spoof, then a string is just about the worst way you can do that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464217312985128" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464217312985128">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:43 PM">16:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Spatial information is something humans use all the time to distinguish things</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464230944473169" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464230944473169">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:43 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">a human-readable string is far better than a practically random string</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464239861301259" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464239861301259">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:43 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Along with certs, which verify that the thing you're looking at is what it says on the tin</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464278184919152" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464278184919152">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><em>but what does it say on the tin</em></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464336166715422" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464336166715422">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So you just need to replace this with some other form of federation</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464337055907841" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464337055907841">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yes, but is a human-readable string better than spatial information?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464388738252891" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464388738252891">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's no reason you can't have a Twitter model for example</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464439124557825" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464439124557825">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:44 PM">16:44</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You have a username and a picture and a bright blue checkmark</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464461677330433" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464461677330433">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:44 PM">16:44</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The username/pic say who it is</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464477334405181" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464477334405181">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> verified by whom?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464500504002560" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464500504002560">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:44 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What if a website was registered as being tied to the geographic location of registration? You couldn't possible mistake googlee for google because someone told you to go to California on the globe to go to Google</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:45 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464506313113661" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464506313113661">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The blue check says "we agree this is who it says it is"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464529264082955" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464529264082955">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:45 PM">16:45</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The blue check is a certificate</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464541658251334" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464541658251334">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">who is "we"</span>

                    </div>




                    <div class="chatlog__reactions">
                            <div class="chatlog__reaction" title="point_up">
                                <img class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--small" alt="☝️" src="files/261d-3A498.svg" loading="lazy">
                                <span class="chatlog__reaction-count">1</span>
                            </div>
                    </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464551691157625" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464551691157625">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:45 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So, the cert people <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464659635896408" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464659635896408">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:45 PM">16:45</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">At some level you're trusting the people who are handing out certificates</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464801801830484" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464801801830484">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:46 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">we are talking about different kinds of trust here</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464907464474724" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464907464474724">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:46 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="ryanfleury#4528">@ryanfleury</span> I'll go register for whitehoose.gov on penn ave</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708464995263840258" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708464995263840258">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:46 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> Well, you'd have some sort of verification of course</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465058656550952" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465058656550952">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:47 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">a certificate can verify that you are in fact talking to the original entity who registered a name</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465100083953764" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465100083953764">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:47 PM">16:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it <em>cannot</em> verify that that is the entity you wanted to talk to</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465116160720936" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465116160720936">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:47 PM">16:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">that is fully outside the system</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465172720648252" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465172720648252">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:47 PM">16:47</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and whether you use a domain name, or a logo, or anything, you need some kind of human-readable cue you can trust</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465192626814988" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465192626814988">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:47 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Right, that has nothing to do with who's handing out the checkmark/cert</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465216639467541" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465216639467541">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:47 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">if this is right, then the cert and everything else verifies that the rest is right</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465276840312862" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465276840312862">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:48 PM">16:48</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but you absolutely must be able to know what entity you are talking to</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465309782376510" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465309782376510">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:48 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So you have some username, etc that's tied to the cert</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465352438186005" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465352438186005">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:48 PM">16:48</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Point is all you need is something unique and human-readable</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465371375730698" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465371375730698">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:48 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">like a domain?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465371375730770" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465371375730770">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:48 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It doesn't need to be a URL</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465410558787637" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465410558787637">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:48 PM">16:48</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It can have spaces in it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465445644009473" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465445644009473">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:48 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I can imagine either having domains, or having identities of organizations like "Twitter" or "Ben Visness"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465471812403270" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465471812403270">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:48 PM">16:48</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but domains seem more natural</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465536991756330" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465536991756330">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:49 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I just don't know why we are pretending that we need to have uniqueness embedded within a little thing of text</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465556923088958" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465556923088958">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:49 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This is familiarity bias</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465587550027868" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465587550027868">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:49 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">what use is it if it is not unique?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465587701022790" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465587701022790">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:49 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There's nothing natural about URLs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465622044114954" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465622044114954">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:49 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't mean to have it non-unique</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465722690502657" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465722690502657">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:49 PM">16:49</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But a spatial position, for example, is always unique if you guarantee two things cannot occupy the same place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465767460503573" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465767460503573">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:50 PM">16:50</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't know what the correct representation is</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465819964669986" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465819964669986">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> I'm not suggesting that we need to keep URLs in their current form, but for the identity component of URLs specifically, I am proposing that you need something with equally as much human-readable identifying information as a domain.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465825996341341" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465825996341341">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But taking advantage of spatial information makes it much easier to verify "location"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466025661726723" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466025661726723">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:51 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Spatial information is also not "human readable", a human doesn't need to <em>read anything</em>, they just need to use all of the same navigational skills they use in the real world</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:51 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708465826042478602" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708465826042478602">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:50 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">your primary identifier for the service you are accessing should be unique to that service</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466242037743718" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466242037743718">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:51 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but there is value in having the identifier be human <em>communicatable</em></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466338385100863" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466338385100863">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">that way one person can tell the other how to find the service</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466315748179976" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466315748179976">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">frankly I don't see why you <em>wouldn't</em> have it be</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466335218139167" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466335218139167">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:52 PM">16:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so you use search all the time, great</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466344907243530" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466344907243530">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">why obfuscate things?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466384933224548" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466384933224548">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Spatial information doesn't obfuscate anything</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466404780671058" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466404780671058">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:52 PM">16:52</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It is exact, precise, unique, etc.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466408798945400" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466408798945400">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:52 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm not talking about spatial information.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466603523833896" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466603523833896">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:53 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I wasn't saying that you were, but I'm saying that it is solving many problems with both propositions of search-based or identifier-based</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466625136951409" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466625136951409">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:53 PM">16:53</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or, at least, it <em>could</em> solve them</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466666727800905" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466666727800905">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:53 PM">16:53</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Again, not sure what the correct representation is</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466732288704563" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466732288704563">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:53 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I still have absolutely zero clue what you are envisioning</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466809594183681" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466809594183681">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:54 PM">16:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">what if you wanted to tell people to go a certain news site, or you were sent a link?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466886077055017" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466886077055017">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:54 PM">16:54</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">how would a person verify that the resource they are accessing is correct, "spatially"?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708466959683026976" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708466959683026976">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The same way that they verify such a location in real life, in a game, or in any other spatially-defined environment</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467013504335914" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467013504335914">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:54 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">ok we're not in VR here</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467026750078997" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467026750078997">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:55 PM">16:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you'll have to elaborate</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467048925102161" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467048925102161">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:55 PM">16:55</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">because I can't look at the sign above the door</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467154067914883" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467154067914883">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:55 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">We're not in VR, but that doesn't mean we cannot represent uniqueness in a spatially-defined, perhaps three-dimensional environment</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467389540335657" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467389540335657">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:56 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm kind of flabbergasted here</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467406342848572" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467406342848572">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:56 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I guess my point is that, in my head, this is the difference between having to type <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">go to forest</span> in an old text adventure, versus just moving your character there and being able to see all contextual information</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:56 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467462080823378" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467462080823378">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:56 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">like, people can know this Facebook is the right Facebook because it's next to the Burger King?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467564430229596" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467564430229596">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:57 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I mean, I'm not proposing an <em>actual</em> 3D world</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467609326190654" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467609326190654">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:57 PM">16:57</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Where you move an avatar around or something</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467649579057202" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467649579057202">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:57 PM">16:57</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But the same idea in principle, where you can identify something by its <em>spatial relationship</em> with other entities</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467700703428704" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467700703428704">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:57 PM">16:57</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This is why I brought up the apps on a phone, even though that is probably not the correct representation either</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:57 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708467849760473108" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708467849760473108">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:58 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I don't know what spatial cues you're even referring to. It's not like I would be able to see that this website is in a shady back alley</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468190291951657" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468190291951657">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 04:59 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I mean, imagine a shady app called "Slapchat" with a little yellow square and a white ghost appears in a location on your phone that is completely different than the place you <em>usually</em> go to open Snapchat</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468246956998728" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468246956998728">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 04:59 PM">16:59</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Or whatever</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468296407580682" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468296407580682">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:00 PM">17:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Are you going to open it?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468469947039795" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468469947039795">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:00 PM">17:00</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Anyways, point is, I am not saying that some three-dimensional representation is good or another one is good, just that it seems like humans use spatial information all the time to identify unique entities</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468815704358992" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468815704358992">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">When I want to go the right place in real life, I look up its address, I navigate there, and then I verify that I am at the right establishment by looking for its name. This is precisely analogous to how navigating the web works.</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468923582120027" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468923582120027">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote"><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-border"></div><div class="chatlog__markdown-quote-content">I am proposing that you need something with equally as much human-readable identifying information as a domain.</div></div></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468929743290479" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468929743290479">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:02 PM">17:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I agree</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469040871374920" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469040871374920">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I really don't think this spatial identity thing is a fruitful avenue <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469161654878259" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469161654878259">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Just an idea <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title=".bmp#5134">@.bmp</span> <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="🙂" title="slight_smile" src="files/twemoji_1f642.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708468934193446972" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708468934193446972">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:02 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I absolutely do not verify that I am in the correct venue based on anything surrounding it; I verify it based on its name and appearance</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469011389874216" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469011389874216">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:02 PM">17:02</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I mean sure if I woke up and all my furniture was moved around, that would be a spatial cue of something</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469082441252957" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469082441252957">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but you have no familiarity to go on when visiting an unfamiliar place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469094348750860" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469094348750860">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:03 PM">17:03</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">by definition</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469219443867758" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469219443867758">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:03 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think it is crazy to suggest that you can verify a new resource, be it a physical venue or a website, by anything other than its stated identity and a trusted third party</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469293842694174" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469293842694174">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:04 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You don't have familiarity when visiting a site for the first time, either (what the "correct" URL should be)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469388323455058" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469388323455058">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:04 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">this is true, and that's why I look things up on Google first</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469415800209479" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469415800209479">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:04 PM">17:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but that doesn't obviate the need for a domain</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469454807498794" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469454807498794">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:04 PM">17:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Google provides soft assurance that I am visiting the correct resource</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469496511201452" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469496511201452">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:04 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If you've looked it up on Google first, you're placing trust in the search mechanism</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469525149909038" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469525149909038">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:04 PM">17:04</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Which was my first suggestion <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469584759619636" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469584759619636">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:05 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's soft, non-authoritative trust</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469612328779786" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469612328779786">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:05 PM">17:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">it's a heuristic for when I lack authoritative knowledge</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469662312300634" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469662312300634">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:05 PM">17:05</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but if I know the precise resource I want to visit, I visit it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469772257329152" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469772257329152">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:05 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">This follows my "find amazon" model</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469824015040602" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469824015040602">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and to my earlier point, even if you prioritize search, I don't know why you would want to obfuscate the name of the resource</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469892554162227" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469892554162227">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:06 PM">17:06</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and to demetri's point in banter, without a name or another identifier that a human can understand, what is there to certify?</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:06 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708469908115292192" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708469908115292192">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:06 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">1) Google "amazon"
2) Bookmark Amazon
3) Next time, type <span class="chatlog__markdown-pre chatlog__markdown-pre--inline">a+m+a+z+enter</span> in the search bar</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470121445982269" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470121445982269">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:07 PM">17:07</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">What are you certifying? Under my model, you're following your own saved link from your soft-authoritative source</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470135224008725" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470135224008725">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">1.5) look for a domain that looks correct instead of just picking the top result</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470251636916316" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470251636916316">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:07 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">"looks correct" is the metagame I was talking about earlier</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470296604311633" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470296604311633">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:08 PM">17:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">most users don't engage in that level of scrutiny</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470311502348359" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470311502348359">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:08 PM">17:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">we may wish they did</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470320079700011" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470320079700011">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:08 PM">17:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but they don't</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470323191742525" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470323191742525">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:08 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Without a human-readable, recognizable identifier, how can a search engine give you any confidence that you are in the right place?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470408067809361" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470408067809361">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:08 PM">17:08</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So you're saying we should throw our hands up and make everything UUIDs, because nobody bothers to check what site they're visiting?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470557276110879" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470557276110879">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:09 PM">17:09</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It's pretty weak to suggest that we shouldn't use domains or domain-like things because they can sometimes be spoofed, and many people don't bother</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470769834918070" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470769834918070">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:09 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">The vast majority of people that don't bother, it's a feature that offers marginal benefit to some users</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470831721873479" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470831721873479">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:10 PM">17:10</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Anyway I agree that some readable, federated identifier is good and important</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470885417222165" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470885417222165">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well good, that's the only part I was actually pushing for</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470898671485011" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470898671485011">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">glad we agree there</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470894145831022" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470894145831022">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But I don't think it's this front-and-center thing that affects most users</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708470968431149510" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708470968431149510">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Certainly not in the way URLs are "designed" to be used</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471011271639122" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471011271639122">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(entering in a URL in an address bar by hand)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471004594438176" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471004594438176">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:10 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think it is irresponsible to build a system that masks the user's only chance to verify that they are in the right place</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471130322894868" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471130322894868">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:11 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">what reason is there to deemphasize that identifier, except that URLs in their current form are kind of gross UX?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471158948757565" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471158948757565">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:11 PM">17:11</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the identifier is not the problem</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471340402999306" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471340402999306">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:12 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Well, maybe you just have the identifier in an info panel</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471357712891904" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471357712891904">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:12 PM">17:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You bring it up if you need it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471429951127573" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471429951127573">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:12 PM">17:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">It doesn't necessarily need to be displayed to you by default</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471518040162324" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471518040162324">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:12 PM">17:12</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">And for that matter, it doesn't need to map 1:1 to an application or page or resource</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471641126207569" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471641126207569">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:13 PM">17:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I could have an Amazon identifier that is equally valid for amazon, kindle, audible, etc</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471762395857018" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471762395857018">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:13 PM">17:13</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As you said you need to verify you're interacting with the entity that you think you are (that the identity of the entity is honest)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471824194732113" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471824194732113">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">sure</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708471848748318820" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708471848748318820">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:14 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">That entity may (and in reality, often does) command many top-level resources</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472660400668724" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472660400668724">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:17 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I'm totally fine if there is an "author" identity separate from the actual resource</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472679937605633" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472679937605633">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:17 PM">17:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">that's the app store model and it works</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472757100478554" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472757100478554">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:17 PM">17:17</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">presumably</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472861710614568" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472861710614568">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:18 PM">17:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and everything outside the domain in a URL is effectively implementation detail on the receiving end</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472878546288641" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472878546288641">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:18 PM">17:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so I don't care about that</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708472885286666261" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708472885286666261">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:18 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="ryanfleury#4528">@ryanfleury</span> On the spatial structure note, I don't think I would use that for integrity verification, but I do like the idea as a way to memorize where things are, and generally mind-map your resources (laying things out spatially <em>yourself</em>)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473008439951461" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473008439951461">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:18 PM">17:18</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As evidenced by my project prominently featuring a pannable canvas on which to store things spatially</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473105751998495" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473105751998495">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think spatial cues are great, but how do you expect them to work unless the structure is familiar?</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473125666553966" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473125666553966">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">There is familiarity value to spatial relationships</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473187058319401" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473187058319401">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Yeah I think it is a very useful and more effective way to memorize things, dramatically more valuable than remembering a sequence of characters</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473217123352646" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473217123352646">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:19 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Outside of that, I'm not sure what value is provided except where the relationships are intuitive</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473361897881622" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473361897881622">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:20 PM">17:20</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">If you step into someone else's house, you need to "learn" their space before it's meaningfully helpful to you</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473390155169842" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473390155169842">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:20 PM">17:20</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Patterns help establish a baseline</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473409780318328" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473409780318328">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">An analogous idea, on the memorization front, is the "Memory Palace" I think it is called</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473433738051595" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473433738051595">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:20 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">You know to check the hallways first if you're looking for the bathroom</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473514713284709" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473514713284709">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:20 PM">17:20</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><span class="chatlog__markdown-mention" title="ryanfleury#4528">@ryanfleury</span> Yes, that's very much on my mind here</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473806389248060" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473806389248060">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:21 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">So, it was just an idea, but I think not only can you use spatial information to <em>identify</em> (if you verify no two things can collide), you can also use it to explore a relevant space</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473824705773598" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473824705773598">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:22 PM">17:22</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">But it could be a terrible idea!</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473871954870283" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473871954870283">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:22 PM">17:22</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Maybe it is correct for personal organization and not much else</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:22 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708473909892218993" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708473909892218993">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:22 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and some patterns are regulations, like having a lightswitch right at the door</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474204600664084" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474204600664084">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:23 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">True</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474273236385895" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474273236385895">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:23 PM">17:23</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">"Mandated patterns" are also useful in that way (though come with drawbacks)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474454195437700" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474454195437700">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I forgot what we were even talking about originally</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474508033654805" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474508033654805">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji chatlog__emoji--large" alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"></span>

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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474516741029952" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474516741029952">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:24 PM">17:24</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">Files</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474517718302833" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474517718302833">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:24 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">URLs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474606335295609" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474606335295609">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">URLs came from discussion about networked file storage</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474709297070141" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474709297070141">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:25 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">suffice to say then that I think it would be interesting to make a system where you can access your "file" data (in whatever form) by an identifying address of some form</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474767921119244" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474767921119244">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:25 PM">17:25</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">such that you could open your data in a web app regardless of what server you had it on</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474832144040006" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474832144040006">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:26 PM">17:26</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">if it's accessible to the internet in some form (authenticated of course), then a program could access and modify it</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group" style="">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474863592931348" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474863592931348">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:26 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and of course this could apply locally instead of going across a network</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div><div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474863056060446" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474863056060446">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:26 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><em>scrolls up</em> oh in house server for IOT shit</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>







<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474904588320810" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474904588320810">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:26 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">As a broader point I do think the federation issue is a big one, and needs careful consideration - I think individuals should have their own federated identity on par with organizations (URLs and email handle this separately right now)</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708474995445202996" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708474995445202996">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:26 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">well they are arguably both handled by the domain name system, but of course everybody just has gmail</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475256230248519" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475256230248519">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:27 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">so everyone gets a identifier that they can use to set up a personal server on the internet for their stuff?</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475348718846003" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475348718846003">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1963eacbf364164efce1c597dc66aeab-E6901.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(250, 186, 71)" title="bvisness#0001" data-user-id="132715550571888640">bvisness</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you definitely need something more stable than an IP address</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475366485917696" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475366485917696">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:28 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">there's no concept here of <em>getting rid of</em> the cloud, but potentially (personally storing your stuff)</span>

                            <span class="chatlog__edited-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:28 PM">(edited)</span>
                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475480348557344" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475480348557344">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:28 PM">17:28</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">the function of the server is mainly in-home and as a gateway for your data</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475578780483585" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475578780483585">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:29 PM">17:29</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you could of course have a cloud backup service all the same</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475633323343892" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475633323343892">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:29 PM">17:29</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I think finer permission gating is useful here though</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475683818438707" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475683818438707">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:29 PM">17:29</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">as a first-class function of an internet-first OS</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475751745191946" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475751745191946">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:29 PM">17:29</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(relating back to the actual topic of this fishbowl chat <img loading="lazy" class="chatlog__emoji " alt="😛" title="stuck_out_tongue" src="files/twemoji_1f61b.svg"> )</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708475931919908884" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708475931919908884">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:30 PM">17:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">e.g. back up all my photos tagged "family", "friends", "selfie", whatever</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476018305794100" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476018305794100">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:30 PM">17:30</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">do not back up photos tagged "naughty", "private", etc</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476154105036871" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476154105036871">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:31 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">instead put those in a sub folder in tax docs</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476187705606255" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476187705606255">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:31 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">haha</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476320123716041" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476320123716041">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:31 PM">17:31</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">"if the red panic button on the home screen is pressed, delete delete delete"</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476555189289003" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476555189289003">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:32 PM">17:32</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">this is a big concern with iCloud and similar that could be solved pretty easily by being able to be more granular about what services can access</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476687909912579" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476687909912579">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:33 PM">17:33</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">maybe people aren't as concerned as they should be, but people are generally at least somewhat distressed by things like massive leaks of celebrity nudes</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476820214906890" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476820214906890">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:33 PM">17:33</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">and even very security-unaware people go to the lengths of having fake calculator apps on their phones and stuff</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708476859909800058" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708476859909800058">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:34 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">when your nudes are only protected by a 10 character string, they are not safe</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708477217562427392" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708477217562427392">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:35 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">not sure how much you can do systemically on the password front</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708477292082364458" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708477292082364458">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:35 PM">17:35</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">long password requirements tend to just turn people off the service</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708477377449164890" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708477377449164890">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:36 PM">17:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">or result in them writing it on a sticky note in their wallet</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708477471200378913" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708477471200378913">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:36 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you can do stuff like secure hardware token</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708477521565319289" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708477521565319289">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:36 PM">17:36</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">USB or NFC tokens exist</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478229110849696" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478229110849696">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:39 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">sure, but since most of this stuff is done on smartphones, not that useful</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478300925722644" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478300925722644">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:39 PM">17:39</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">if you carry both on your person, no benefit</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478334547525632" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478334547525632">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:39 PM">17:39</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(over sticky note)</span>

                    </div>




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<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478398212603942" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478398212603942">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:40 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but they'd have to steal your keys and your phone</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478467573940307" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478467573940307">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:40 PM">17:40</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">which is much lower opportunity window</span>

                    </div>




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</div>



<div class="chatlog__message-group">
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478568602271794" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478568602271794">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:40 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">fair enough, depends how it happens</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478617524502548" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478617524502548">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:41 PM">17:41</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">you could leave both in a hotel room</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478708008353873" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478708008353873">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/1-B2132.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title="ratchetfreak#1181" data-user-id="269884325082693632">ratchetfreak</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">or a pool locker</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478723036414013" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478723036414013">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/8bbce81d74ba142434988d9baee7f26e-1DC70.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(46, 204, 113)" title=".bmp#5134" data-user-id="327294362134511619">.bmp</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 05:41 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">but yeah if you're talking pickpockets, or even just forgetting your phone on a park bench, uber seat, whatever</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478733530431590" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478733530431590">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:41 PM">17:41</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">right</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478853718474824" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478853718474824">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:42 PM">17:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">I do think hardware keys are a good idea, they at least address the issue from the non-physical side</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478957632094230" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478957632094230">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:42 PM">17:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">eliminate the need to have short, memorable passwords</span>

                    </div>




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        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708478996706361444" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708478996706361444">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:42 PM">17:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">most of the attack vector is online anyway</span>

                    </div>




            </div>
        </div>
    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708479064289050646" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708479064289050646">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:42 PM">17:42</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">they don't protect against hacks and stuff, but when it comes to hacks you're just out of luck</span>

                    </div>




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    </div>
    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708479132274786386" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708479132274786386">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:43 PM">17:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">all you can do is hope whoever has your data is security-conscious enough</span>

                    </div>




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    <div id="chatlog__message-container-708479213321322539" class="chatlog__message-container " data-message-id="708479213321322539">
        <div class="chatlog__message">
            <div class="chatlog__message-aside">
                    <div class="chatlog__short-timestamp" title="08-May-20 05:43 PM">17:43</div>
            </div>

            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve">(and be aware of who has your data...)</span>

                    </div>




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                    <img class="chatlog__avatar" src="files/e666f2aa4fa50eade7484de6a45639dc-A5D0D.png" alt="Avatar" loading="lazy">
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            <div class="chatlog__message-primary">
                    <div class="chatlog__header">
                        <span class="chatlog__author" style="color: rgb(52, 152, 219)" title="ryanfleury#4528" data-user-id="137051765328576512">ryanfleury</span>


                        <span class="chatlog__timestamp">May 08, 2020 11:51 PM</span>
                    </div>

                    <div class="chatlog__content chatlog__markdown">
                        <span class="chatlog__markdown-preserve"><strong>End of Fishbowl Day 1, thanks everyone for participating!</strong> (Logs will be posted soon)

If you have an idea for a Fishbowl conversation, throw it in <span class="chatlog__markdown-mention">#network-meta</span> or DM me!</span>

                    </div>




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