diff --git a/public/fishbowl-dark.css b/public/fishbowl-dark.css index 6015283..ccca84f 100644 --- a/public/fishbowl-dark.css +++ b/public/fishbowl-dark.css @@ -546,6 +546,7 @@ margin-right: 0.5rem; border: 2px solid #4f545c; border-radius: 3px; + background-color: #4f545c; } .fishbowl .chatlog__markdown-pre { diff --git a/public/fishbowl-light.css b/public/fishbowl-light.css index 578b6de..1839f7d 100644 --- a/public/fishbowl-light.css +++ b/public/fishbowl-light.css @@ -547,6 +547,7 @@ margin-right: 0.5rem; border: 2px solid #c7ccd1; border-radius: 3px; + background-color: #c7ccd1; } .fishbowl .chatlog__markdown-pre { diff --git a/src/templates/src/fishbowls/oop/OOP.html b/src/templates/src/fishbowls/oop/OOP.html index 31817de..acb3bb1 100644 --- a/src/templates/src/fishbowls/oop/OOP.html +++ b/src/templates/src/fishbowls/oop/OOP.html @@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
+ @@ -7,12 +8,12 @@
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bvisness
@@ -24,11 +25,11 @@ bvisness - 28-May-22 09:58 AM + May 28, 2022 09:58 AM
- Welcome to yet another fishbowl, everyone! Just setting things up here. The main conversation is here in this thread, and the #fishbowl-audience conversation starts here: https://discord.com/channels/239737791225790464/708458209131757598/980155512412864552 + Welcome to yet another fishbowl, everyone! Just setting things up here. The main conversation is here in this thread, and the #fishbowl-audience conversation starts here: https://discord.com/channels/239737791225790464/708458209131757598/980155512412864552 The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of sorts. Check them out if there's a specific aspect of the discussion you'd like to see. @@ -48,7 +49,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -56,7 +57,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of gingerBill - 28-May-22 09:59 AM + May 28, 2022 09:59 AM
@@ -78,7 +79,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -86,7 +87,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:00 AM + May 28, 2022 10:00 AM
@@ -108,7 +109,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -116,7 +117,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of bvisness - 28-May-22 10:01 AM + May 28, 2022 10:01 AM
@@ -127,12 +128,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of -
-
- 💥 - 4 -
-
+
@@ -145,7 +141,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
- That is, unfortunately, not a very nuanced question. 🙂 + That is, unfortunately, not a very nuanced question. 🙂
@@ -316,7 +312,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
- - @SirWhinesalot, a community member whose comments were instrumental to the planning process for this fishbowl (if there are projects you've worked on that I'm not aware of, let me know and I'll update this introduction 😅) + - @SirWhinesalot, a community member whose comments were instrumental to the planning process for this fishbowl (if there are projects you've worked on that I'm not aware of, let me know and I'll update this introduction 😅)
@@ -334,7 +330,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -342,11 +338,11 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:08 AM + May 28, 2022 10:08 AM
- none public 🙂 + none public 🙂
@@ -372,12 +368,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of -
-
- ❗ - 1 -
-
+
@@ -389,7 +380,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -397,11 +388,11 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of bvisness - 28-May-22 10:08 AM + May 28, 2022 10:08 AM
- 👍 + 👍
@@ -438,7 +429,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -446,7 +437,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:10 AM + May 28, 2022 10:10 AM
@@ -469,7 +460,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
- 1958-1966: A few different people gradually come up with the notion of structured data. Conventions for managing compound data made of multiple words in memory. If you have two points, you want their x and y coordinates close together and in the same relative order. Seems obvious, but wasn't! See http://akkartik.name/sketchpad-oo.png from the Sketchpad thesis [1]. + 1958-1966: A few different people gradually come up with the notion of structured data. Conventions for managing compound data made of multiple words in memory. If you have two points, you want their x and y coordinates close together and in the same relative order. Seems obvious, but wasn't! See http://akkartik.name/sketchpad-oo.png from the Sketchpad thesis [1]. 1960-1962: Ivan Sutherland works on Sketchpad. It presages many OO ideas, but they're all in the programmer's mind and prose (thesis) because the code is all machine code. @@ -479,17 +470,13 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of 1973-1975: Abstract data types by Barbara Liskov. Ignore internal details of how objects are laid out in memory. Focus instead on a small vocabulary of operations that can be performed using them. Interfaces, basically.[4] -1966-1975: Alan Kay coins OO after working on Smalltalk. (The first chapter of http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html is better than my history above.) "Did not have C++ in mind." However, we're only halfway done. +1966-1975: Alan Kay coins OO after working on Smalltalk. (The first chapter of http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html is better than my history above.) "Did not have C++ in mind." However, we're only halfway done. (edited)
-
- - Embedded image - -
+
@@ -538,17 +525,17 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
References -[1] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-574.pdf -[2] https://hannemyr.com/cache/knojd_acm78.pdf -[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month -[4] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.136.3043 -[5] https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/5794/AIM-349.pdf -[6] https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/scheme/oop/yasos/swob.txt -[7] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-architecture-astronauts-scare-you -[8] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=785601 -[9] https://blog.plover.com/prog/design-patterns.html -[10] First HN submission that composition > inheritance: https://web.archive.org/web/20080508155333/http://www.eflorenzano.com/blog/post/inheritance-vs-composition. -[11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YbK8o9rZfI +[1] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-574.pdf +[2] https://hannemyr.com/cache/knojd_acm78.pdf +[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month +[4] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.136.3043 +[5] https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/5794/AIM-349.pdf +[6] https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/scheme/oop/yasos/swob.txt +[7] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-architecture-astronauts-scare-you +[8] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=785601 +[9] https://blog.plover.com/prog/design-patterns.html +[10] First HN submission that composition > inheritance: https://web.archive.org/web/20080508155333/http://www.eflorenzano.com/blog/post/inheritance-vs-composition. +[11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YbK8o9rZfI
@@ -567,7 +554,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
- Ok I'm done 🙂 Summary: there's a lot of ideas baked into "OO". Most of them are great. Some of them are showing their age. And unbundling them all feels more useful than treating them monolithically. End prepared remarks 🙂 + Ok I'm done 🙂 Summary: there's a lot of ideas baked into "OO". Most of them are great. Some of them are showing their age. And unbundling them all feels more useful than treating them monolithically. End prepared remarks 🙂
@@ -585,7 +572,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -593,7 +580,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of bvisness - 28-May-22 10:14 AM + May 28, 2022 10:14 AM
@@ -654,7 +641,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -662,7 +649,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:18 AM + May 28, 2022 10:18 AM
@@ -703,7 +690,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -711,11 +698,11 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:19 AM + May 28, 2022 10:19 AM
- Oh gosh. I wasn't around then 🙂 but my weak sense is that while there were a few different programming languages being researched, the vast majority of people were programming in machine code and Assembly back then. Big ones: Fortran, COBOL, Algol (still getting refined), Lisp 1.5. + Oh gosh. I wasn't around then 🙂 but my weak sense is that while there were a few different programming languages being researched, the vast majority of people were programming in machine code and Assembly back then. Big ones: Fortran, COBOL, Algol (still getting refined), Lisp 1.5.
@@ -790,7 +777,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -798,7 +785,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of bvisness - 28-May-22 10:21 AM + May 28, 2022 10:21 AM
@@ -859,7 +846,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of
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@@ -867,7 +854,7 @@ The pinned messages are some "checkpoints" in the discussion; chapter markers of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:25 AM + May 28, 2022 10:25 AM
@@ -910,7 +897,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
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@@ -918,7 +905,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi bvisness - 28-May-22 10:26 AM + May 28, 2022 10:26 AM
@@ -941,7 +928,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
- or at least a Wirth fan 🙂 + or at least a Wirth fan 🙂
@@ -950,7 +937,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
- ❤️ + ❤️ 3
@@ -965,7 +952,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
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@@ -973,7 +960,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:27 AM + May 28, 2022 10:27 AM
@@ -1052,7 +1039,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
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@@ -1060,7 +1047,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi bvisness - 28-May-22 10:30 AM + May 28, 2022 10:30 AM
@@ -1082,7 +1069,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi
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@@ -1090,7 +1077,7 @@ The software industry took off around late 70s? And then it took a while to redi gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:31 AM + May 28, 2022 10:31 AM
@@ -1113,7 +1100,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d
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@@ -1121,7 +1108,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:31 AM + May 28, 2022 10:31 AM
@@ -1143,7 +1130,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d
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@@ -1151,7 +1138,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:32 AM + May 28, 2022 10:32 AM
@@ -1173,7 +1160,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d
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@@ -1181,7 +1168,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:33 AM + May 28, 2022 10:33 AM
@@ -1203,7 +1190,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d
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@@ -1211,7 +1198,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d bvisness - 28-May-22 10:33 AM + May 28, 2022 10:33 AM
@@ -1272,7 +1259,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d
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@@ -1280,7 +1267,7 @@ John Backus, Peter Naur (yes, those two of Backus-Naur Form), Friedrich Bauer (d gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:34 AM + May 28, 2022 10:34 AM
@@ -1316,8 +1303,8 @@ Regarding (1), I personally believe this is much better solved with a well desig Regarding (2), this is a weird linguistic typology thing which I doubt most people will even know unless they speak multiple languages. If you want to learn more about word orders in different languages, I recommend reading the following: - * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject%E2%80%93verb%E2%80%93object_word_order - * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verb%E2%80%93subject%E2%80%93object_word_order + * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject%E2%80%93verb%E2%80%93object_word_order + * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verb%E2%80%93subject%E2%80%93object_word_order Regarding (3), this is purely a tooling issue. It comes down to two main aspects: @@ -1344,7 +1331,7 @@ Doing foo.
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@@ -1352,7 +1339,7 @@ Doing foo.Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:36 AM + May 28, 2022 10:36 AM
@@ -1374,7 +1361,7 @@ Doing foo.
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@@ -1382,7 +1369,7 @@ Doing foo.bvisness - 28-May-22 10:36 AM + May 28, 2022 10:36 AM
@@ -1404,7 +1391,7 @@ Doing foo.
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@@ -1412,7 +1399,7 @@ Doing foo.demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:37 AM + May 28, 2022 10:37 AM
@@ -1472,7 +1459,7 @@ Doing foo.
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@@ -1480,7 +1467,7 @@ Doing foo.demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:38 AM + May 28, 2022 10:38 AM
@@ -1504,7 +1491,7 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) {
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@@ -1512,7 +1499,7 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) { SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:38 AM + May 28, 2022 10:38 AM
@@ -1539,12 +1526,12 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) {
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demetrispanos
@@ -1562,7 +1549,7 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) { SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:39 AM + May 28, 2022 10:39 AM
@@ -1580,7 +1567,7 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) {
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@@ -1588,7 +1575,7 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) { SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:39 AM + May 28, 2022 10:39 AM
@@ -1607,12 +1594,12 @@ void mything_do_cool_stuff (struct mything *m, int x) {
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SirWhinesalot
@@ -1624,7 +1611,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:40 AM + May 28, 2022 10:40 AM
@@ -1642,7 +1629,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y
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@@ -1650,7 +1637,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:39 AM + May 28, 2022 10:39 AM
@@ -1672,7 +1659,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y
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@@ -1680,7 +1667,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y gingerBill - 28-May-22 10:40 AM + May 28, 2022 10:40 AM
@@ -1702,7 +1689,7 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y
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@@ -1710,11 +1697,11 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:39 AM + May 28, 2022 10:39 AM
- There's a few of those 😄 + There's a few of those 😄
@@ -1745,12 +1732,12 @@ importantly, note how in the pattern above the function is not tied to struct, y
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SirWhinesalot
@@ -1762,7 +1749,7 @@ in OOP, classes have a fixed set of methods, usually Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:40 AM + May 28, 2022 10:40 AM
@@ -1784,7 +1771,7 @@ in OOP, classes have a fixed set of methods, usually
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@@ -1792,7 +1779,7 @@ in OOP, classes have a fixed set of methods, usually SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:40 AM + May 28, 2022 10:40 AM
@@ -1805,7 +1792,7 @@ in OOP, classes have a fixed set of methods, usually
- 💡 + 💡 1
@@ -1821,12 +1808,12 @@ in OOP, classes have a fixed set of methods, usually
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- Avatar + Avatar
demetrispanos
@@ -1838,7 +1825,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in bvisness - 28-May-22 10:40 AM + May 28, 2022 10:40 AM
@@ -1860,7 +1847,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -1868,7 +1855,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:42 AM + May 28, 2022 10:42 AM
@@ -1928,7 +1915,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -1936,7 +1923,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:43 AM + May 28, 2022 10:43 AM
@@ -1958,7 +1945,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -1966,7 +1953,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:43 AM + May 28, 2022 10:43 AM
@@ -2007,7 +1994,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -2015,7 +2002,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:44 AM + May 28, 2022 10:44 AM
@@ -2039,7 +2026,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -2047,7 +2034,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:45 AM + May 28, 2022 10:45 AM
@@ -2184,7 +2171,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -2192,7 +2179,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:50 AM + May 28, 2022 10:50 AM
@@ -2215,7 +2202,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
- in self (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(programming_language)) you have the idea of a prototype as the unit of implementation delegation + in self (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(programming_language)) you have the idea of a prototype as the unit of implementation delegation
@@ -2252,7 +2239,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in
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@@ -2260,7 +2247,7 @@ yes exactly, that's part of what I mean by "mere" (i.e. they're not wound up in Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 10:52 AM + May 28, 2022 10:52 AM
@@ -2303,7 +2290,7 @@ Trying to demarcate precisely the boundaries of "OOP" might be a time sink. I'd
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@@ -2311,7 +2298,7 @@ Trying to demarcate precisely the boundaries of "OOP" might be a time sink. I'd demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:52 AM + May 28, 2022 10:52 AM
@@ -2352,7 +2339,7 @@ Trying to demarcate precisely the boundaries of "OOP" might be a time sink. I'd
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@@ -2360,7 +2347,7 @@ Trying to demarcate precisely the boundaries of "OOP" might be a time sink. I'd bvisness - 28-May-22 10:53 AM + May 28, 2022 10:53 AM
@@ -2383,12 +2370,12 @@ Trying to demarcate precisely the boundaries of "OOP" might be a time sink. I'd
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SirWhinesalot
@@ -2400,7 +2387,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . bvisness - 28-May-22 10:54 AM + May 28, 2022 10:54 AM
@@ -2422,7 +2409,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2430,11 +2417,11 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:55 AM + May 28, 2022 10:55 AM
- Right, might be worth posting that meme making fun of GeeksForGeeks here 😄 + Right, might be worth posting that meme making fun of GeeksForGeeks here 😄
@@ -2452,7 +2439,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2460,7 +2447,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . bvisness - 28-May-22 10:56 AM + May 28, 2022 10:56 AM
@@ -2482,7 +2469,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2490,7 +2477,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:56 AM + May 28, 2022 10:56 AM
@@ -2512,7 +2499,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2520,7 +2507,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:56 AM + May 28, 2022 10:56 AM
@@ -2542,7 +2529,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2550,7 +2537,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:56 AM + May 28, 2022 10:56 AM
@@ -2572,7 +2559,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2580,7 +2567,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . demetrispanos - 28-May-22 10:57 AM + May 28, 2022 10:57 AM
@@ -2602,7 +2589,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2610,7 +2597,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . bvisness - 28-May-22 10:57 AM + May 28, 2022 10:57 AM
@@ -2651,7 +2638,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2659,7 +2646,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 10:57 AM + May 28, 2022 10:57 AM
@@ -2750,7 +2737,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
- 😄 + 😄 1
@@ -2841,7 +2828,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2849,11 +2836,11 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 11:00 AM + May 28, 2022 11:00 AM
- One wonderful book that made the rounds last year: https://buttondown.email/hillelwayne/archive/why-you-should-read-data-and-reality + One wonderful book that made the rounds last year: https://buttondown.email/hillelwayne/archive/why-you-should-read-data-and-reality
@@ -2871,7 +2858,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice .
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@@ -2879,7 +2866,7 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . gingerBill - 28-May-22 11:01 AM + May 28, 2022 11:01 AM
@@ -2887,8 +2874,8 @@ this is why I think mere methods and OOP are separate concerns. Having a nice . By this statement, I mean that artificially conforming to any/all relations between data and types to an artificial hierarchy of agency is a form of naïve-Aristotelian metaphysics. Since there is no actual agency in the programming objects, it is a partial fallacy (and as previously stated, category error). When trying to conform a program to have a particular structure when it does not naturally, the absence of a structure in a program in more useful than a bad structure. -[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake -[2] https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2020/05/31/progamming-pragmatist-proverbs/ +[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake +[2] https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2020/05/31/progamming-pragmatist-proverbs/
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@@ -2936,7 +2923,7 @@ By this statement, I mean that artificially conforming to any/all relat
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@@ -2944,7 +2931,7 @@ By this statement, I mean that artificially conforming to any/all relat gingerBill - 28-May-22 11:02 AM + May 28, 2022 11:02 AM
@@ -3071,7 +3058,7 @@ By this statement, I mean that artificially conforming to any/all relat
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@@ -3195,7 +3182,7 @@ By this statement, I mean that artificially conforming to any/all relat gingerBill - 28-May-22 11:06 AM + May 28, 2022 11:06 AM
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Kartik Agaram
@@ -3459,7 +3441,7 @@ The best defense I've heard for OO design is to limit your ambitions to modeling gingerBill - 28-May-22 11:10 AM + May 28, 2022 11:10 AM
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gingerBill
@@ -3536,7 +3513,7 @@ The irony of that statement is that is kind of the opposite of the point. Progra Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 11:11 AM + May 28, 2022 11:11 AM
@@ -3558,7 +3535,7 @@ The irony of that statement is that is kind of the opposite of the point. Progra
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@@ -3566,7 +3543,7 @@ The irony of that statement is that is kind of the opposite of the point. Progra SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 11:12 AM + May 28, 2022 11:12 AM
@@ -3627,12 +3604,12 @@ The irony of that statement is that is kind of the opposite of the point. Progra
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Kartik Agaram
@@ -3644,7 +3621,7 @@ The idea is that once you've solved a problem, OO Design is a good way to contin gingerBill - 28-May-22 11:13 AM + May 28, 2022 11:13 AM
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@@ -3730,11 +3707,11 @@ The idea is that once you've solved a problem, OO Design is a good way to contin Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 11:13 AM + May 28, 2022 11:13 AM
- I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they? + I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they?
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Kartik Agaram
-I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they? +I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they?
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@@ -3804,7 +3781,7 @@ I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology bvisness - 28-May-22 11:14 AM + May 28, 2022 11:14 AM
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Kartik Agaram
-I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they? +I'm actually not familiar with any non-OO design methodology 😄 They kinda sucked the oxygen out of the room, didn't they?
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bvisness
@@ -3890,7 +3867,7 @@ Certainly though the term "design patterns" has come to exclusively mean "object bvisness - 28-May-22 11:15 AM + May 28, 2022 11:15 AM
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- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design does have a list. I guess I'm not aware of it because I don't do design 😅 + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design does have a list. I guess I'm not aware of it because I don't do design 😅
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Software design is the process by which an agent creates a specification of a software artifact intended to accomplish goals, using a set of primitive components and subject to constraints. Software design may refer to either "all the activity involved in conceptualizing, framing, implementing, commissioning, and ultimately modifying complex sys...
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- Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get trained to think in terms of nouns and deemphasize verbs: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html + Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get trained to think in terms of nouns and deemphasize verbs: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html
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Kartik Agaram
-Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get trained to think in terms of nouns and deemphasize verbs: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html +Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get trained to think in terms of nouns and deemphasize verbs: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html
@@ -4413,7 +4356,7 @@ Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get tra bvisness - 28-May-22 11:24 AM + May 28, 2022 11:24 AM
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- He talked about it some on our podcast episode about programming education, as I recall (https://handmade.network/podcast/ep/eeac46c9-5e90-4b1c-9104-cff49734764d) + He talked about it some on our podcast episode about programming education, as I recall (https://handmade.network/podcast/ep/eeac46c9-5e90-4b1c-9104-cff49734764d)
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@@ -4557,7 +4500,7 @@ Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get tra Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 11:34 AM + May 28, 2022 11:34 AM
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@@ -4587,7 +4530,7 @@ Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get tra SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 11:34 AM + May 28, 2022 11:34 AM
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@@ -5182,11 +5125,11 @@ Among other critiques, this approach causes some blind spots because you get tra Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 11:48 AM + May 28, 2022 11:48 AM
- I wonder how much of Java being OO was because of the marketing efforts predating it.. 🤔 + I wonder how much of Java being OO was because of the marketing efforts predating it.. 🤔
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demetrispanos
@@ -5636,7 +5574,7 @@ but widget hierarchies are much more usefully modeled by OOP than, say, customer SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 11:56 AM + May 28, 2022 11:56 AM
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bvisness
@@ -5859,48 +5792,16 @@ I do think it's interesting though that it was still a more effective model than Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:02 PM + May 28, 2022 12:02 PM
- That HN comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=785601#785833) actually hit me like a pile of bricks. Until then I'd only heard that you used inheritance to model is-a relationships, then wandered off because that seemed to suck. + That HN comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=785601#785833) actually hit me like a pile of bricks. Until then I'd only heard that you used inheritance to model is-a relationships, then wandered off because that seemed to suck.
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demetrispanos
@@ -5962,7 +5863,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" bvisness - 28-May-22 12:03 PM + May 28, 2022 12:03 PM
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bvisness
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SirWhinesalot
@@ -6196,7 +6092,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language bvisness - 28-May-22 12:04 PM + May 28, 2022 12:04 PM
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@@ -6287,7 +6183,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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@@ -6295,7 +6191,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:05 PM + May 28, 2022 12:05 PM
@@ -6374,7 +6270,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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@@ -6382,7 +6278,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:06 PM + May 28, 2022 12:06 PM
@@ -6423,7 +6319,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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@@ -6431,7 +6327,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:06 PM + May 28, 2022 12:06 PM
@@ -6444,7 +6340,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
- ☝️ + ☝️ 2
@@ -6469,7 +6365,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
- 💯 + 💯 2
@@ -6484,7 +6380,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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@@ -6492,7 +6388,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:06 PM + May 28, 2022 12:06 PM
@@ -6514,7 +6410,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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@@ -6522,7 +6418,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language bvisness - 28-May-22 12:08 PM + May 28, 2022 12:08 PM
@@ -6571,12 +6467,7 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language -
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@@ -6589,12 +6480,12 @@ meaningless but unfortunately very critical if you're in an OO language
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demetrispanos
@@ -6606,7 +6497,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" bvisness - 28-May-22 12:09 PM + May 28, 2022 12:09 PM
@@ -6647,7 +6538,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6655,7 +6546,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:09 PM + May 28, 2022 12:09 PM
@@ -6677,7 +6568,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6685,7 +6576,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" bvisness - 28-May-22 12:10 PM + May 28, 2022 12:10 PM
@@ -6707,7 +6598,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6715,7 +6606,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:11 PM + May 28, 2022 12:11 PM
@@ -6737,7 +6628,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6745,7 +6636,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" bvisness - 28-May-22 12:11 PM + May 28, 2022 12:11 PM
@@ -6767,7 +6658,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6775,7 +6666,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:11 PM + May 28, 2022 12:11 PM
@@ -6797,7 +6688,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6805,7 +6696,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:11 PM + May 28, 2022 12:11 PM
@@ -6827,7 +6718,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6835,7 +6726,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:12 PM + May 28, 2022 12:12 PM
@@ -6857,7 +6748,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6865,23 +6756,18 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:13 PM + May 28, 2022 12:13 PM
- With hindsight, the question I'm left with is, why did anyone ever consider this a good thing. Alan Kay made the analogy with biological cells in http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html#4, but back then (i.e. until the 90s when I started programming) we all assumed that was a good thing. + With hindsight, the question I'm left with is, why did anyone ever consider this a good thing. Alan Kay made the analogy with biological cells in http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html#4, but back then (i.e. until the 90s when I started programming) we all assumed that was a good thing.
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@@ -6893,7 +6779,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6901,7 +6787,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:14 PM + May 28, 2022 12:14 PM
@@ -6923,7 +6809,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6931,7 +6817,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:14 PM + May 28, 2022 12:14 PM
@@ -6944,7 +6830,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
- legobrick + legobrick 1
@@ -6959,7 +6845,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6967,7 +6853,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:14 PM + May 28, 2022 12:14 PM
@@ -6989,7 +6875,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -6997,7 +6883,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:14 PM + May 28, 2022 12:14 PM
@@ -7019,7 +6905,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -7027,7 +6913,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:15 PM + May 28, 2022 12:15 PM
@@ -7068,7 +6954,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7076,11 +6962,11 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:16 PM + May 28, 2022 12:16 PM
- live editing is also not dependent on any sort of "object" 🙂 + live editing is also not dependent on any sort of "object" 🙂
@@ -7098,7 +6984,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7106,7 +6992,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:16 PM + May 28, 2022 12:16 PM
@@ -7223,7 +7109,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7231,11 +7117,11 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:18 PM + May 28, 2022 12:18 PM
- https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Formatter.html + https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Formatter.html
@@ -7254,7 +7140,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
- so close 🙂 + so close 🙂
@@ -7272,7 +7158,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7280,7 +7166,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:18 PM + May 28, 2022 12:18 PM
@@ -7340,7 +7226,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7348,7 +7234,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:18 PM + May 28, 2022 12:18 PM
@@ -7385,7 +7271,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7393,7 +7279,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:18 PM + May 28, 2022 12:18 PM
@@ -7438,7 +7324,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7446,7 +7332,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:19 PM + May 28, 2022 12:19 PM
@@ -7525,7 +7411,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7533,7 +7419,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:20 PM + May 28, 2022 12:20 PM
@@ -7593,7 +7479,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
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@@ -7601,7 +7487,7 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a" Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:21 PM + May 28, 2022 12:21 PM
@@ -7624,12 +7510,12 @@ yes how many times has a junior programmer agonized over "is-a" vs "has-a"
- Avatar + Avatar
- Avatar + Avatar
Kartik Agaram
@@ -7641,7 +7527,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of bvisness - 28-May-22 12:22 PM + May 28, 2022 12:22 PM
@@ -7663,7 +7549,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7671,7 +7557,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:22 PM + May 28, 2022 12:22 PM
@@ -7731,7 +7617,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7739,7 +7625,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:23 PM + May 28, 2022 12:23 PM
@@ -7761,7 +7647,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7769,7 +7655,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:23 PM + May 28, 2022 12:23 PM
@@ -7905,7 +7791,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7913,7 +7799,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of bvisness - 28-May-22 12:26 PM + May 28, 2022 12:26 PM
@@ -7935,7 +7821,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7943,7 +7829,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:26 PM + May 28, 2022 12:26 PM
@@ -7984,7 +7870,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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@@ -7992,7 +7878,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:26 PM + May 28, 2022 12:26 PM
@@ -8014,7 +7900,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8022,7 +7908,7 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:26 PM + May 28, 2022 12:26 PM
@@ -8045,12 +7931,12 @@ Reuse does feel like an idea important enough to be worth trying for a couple of
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bvisness
@@ -8062,7 +7948,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:27 PM + May 28, 2022 12:27 PM
@@ -8103,7 +7989,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
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@@ -8111,7 +7997,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8129,7 +8015,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
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@@ -8137,7 +8023,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot bvisness - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8156,7 +8042,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
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@@ -8164,7 +8050,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8182,7 +8068,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
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@@ -8190,7 +8076,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8210,12 +8096,12 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
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bvisness
@@ -8227,7 +8113,7 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot gingerBill - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8250,12 +8136,12 @@ Do you think object-oriented design is worse at providing reuse than ot
- Avatar + Avatar
- Avatar + Avatar
gingerBill
@@ -8267,7 +8153,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc gingerBill - 28-May-22 12:28 PM + May 28, 2022 12:28 PM
@@ -8305,7 +8191,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8313,7 +8199,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc bvisness - 28-May-22 12:29 PM + May 28, 2022 12:29 PM
@@ -8335,7 +8221,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8343,7 +8229,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:29 PM + May 28, 2022 12:29 PM
@@ -8479,7 +8365,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8487,7 +8373,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:32 PM + May 28, 2022 12:32 PM
@@ -8547,7 +8433,7 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8555,13 +8441,13 @@ So this depends. Most traditonal inheritance based OOP are worse than plain proc Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:35 PM + May 28, 2022 12:35 PM
Complexity feels like something worth talking about head on. A lot of our discussion has had it implicitly in the background. The promise of many languages/tools/paradigms is "treat complexity as an externality. Infinite scale!" This never bears out, and lately I consider it a bad direction. Why is it so important to be able to scale up in complexity? -Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir 😅 +Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir 😅
@@ -8580,18 +8466,18 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
- Avatar + Avatar
Kartik Agaram
Complexity feels like something worth talking about head on. A lot of our discussion has had it implicitly in the background. The promise of many languages/tools/paradigms is "treat complexity as an externality. Infinite scale!" This never bears out, and lately I consider it a bad direction. Why is it so important to be able to scale up in complexity? -Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir 😅 +Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir 😅
@@ -8599,7 +8485,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:37 PM + May 28, 2022 12:37 PM
@@ -8621,7 +8507,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8629,7 +8515,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:38 PM + May 28, 2022 12:38 PM
@@ -8647,7 +8533,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8655,7 +8541,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:38 PM + May 28, 2022 12:38 PM
@@ -8681,7 +8567,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8689,7 +8575,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:39 PM + May 28, 2022 12:39 PM
@@ -8711,7 +8597,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8719,7 +8605,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:40 PM + May 28, 2022 12:40 PM
@@ -8742,7 +8628,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8750,7 +8636,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:41 PM + May 28, 2022 12:41 PM
@@ -8772,7 +8658,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8780,7 +8666,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:41 PM + May 28, 2022 12:41 PM
@@ -8806,7 +8692,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8814,7 +8700,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:42 PM + May 28, 2022 12:42 PM
@@ -8827,7 +8713,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- 😂 + 😂 1
@@ -8842,7 +8728,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8850,7 +8736,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:42 PM + May 28, 2022 12:42 PM
@@ -8863,7 +8749,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- 💯 + 💯 1
@@ -8882,7 +8768,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8890,7 +8776,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:42 PM + May 28, 2022 12:42 PM
@@ -8927,7 +8813,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8935,7 +8821,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:42 PM + May 28, 2022 12:42 PM
@@ -8957,7 +8843,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -8965,7 +8851,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:43 PM + May 28, 2022 12:43 PM
@@ -8976,12 +8862,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir -
- 🤔 - 1 -
-
+
@@ -8993,7 +8874,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9001,7 +8882,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:44 PM + May 28, 2022 12:44 PM
@@ -9099,7 +8980,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9107,11 +8988,11 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:45 PM + May 28, 2022 12:45 PM
- 💯 But then doesn't everything? I define architecture as "that which is hard to change." + 💯 But then doesn't everything? I define architecture as "that which is hard to change."
@@ -9129,7 +9010,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9137,7 +9018,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:45 PM + May 28, 2022 12:45 PM
@@ -9159,7 +9040,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9167,7 +9048,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 12:46 PM + May 28, 2022 12:46 PM
@@ -9266,7 +9147,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9274,7 +9155,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:46 PM + May 28, 2022 12:46 PM
@@ -9296,7 +9177,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9304,7 +9185,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:47 PM + May 28, 2022 12:47 PM
@@ -9345,7 +9226,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9353,7 +9234,7 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir bvisness - 28-May-22 12:48 PM + May 28, 2022 12:48 PM
@@ -9376,12 +9257,12 @@ Oh wait, where am I, this is Handmade Network. I'm preaching to the choir
- Avatar + Avatar
- Avatar + Avatar
SirWhinesalot
@@ -9393,7 +9274,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t bvisness - 28-May-22 12:49 PM + May 28, 2022 12:49 PM
@@ -9435,7 +9316,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9443,11 +9324,11 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:49 PM + May 28, 2022 12:49 PM
- All the fun there is in that word "unnecessary" 🙂 + All the fun there is in that word "unnecessary" 🙂
@@ -9465,7 +9346,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9473,11 +9354,11 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t bvisness - 28-May-22 12:49 PM + May 28, 2022 12:49 PM
- That might be too big a question 😛 + That might be too big a question 😛
@@ -9495,7 +9376,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9503,7 +9384,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:50 PM + May 28, 2022 12:50 PM
@@ -9525,7 +9406,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9533,7 +9414,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:50 PM + May 28, 2022 12:50 PM
@@ -9555,7 +9436,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9563,7 +9444,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:50 PM + May 28, 2022 12:50 PM
@@ -9623,7 +9504,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9631,7 +9512,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t bvisness - 28-May-22 12:52 PM + May 28, 2022 12:52 PM
@@ -9674,7 +9555,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9682,7 +9563,7 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:52 PM + May 28, 2022 12:52 PM
@@ -9705,12 +9586,12 @@ breaking down systems into components definitely helps with scaling things up, t
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- Avatar + Avatar
bvisness
@@ -9723,11 +9604,11 @@ I suppose then that programming was just running into the very real problems of Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:53 PM + May 28, 2022 12:53 PM
- Oh very interesting, hadn't seen this before: https://research.swtch.com/vgo-eng + Oh very interesting, hadn't seen this before: https://research.swtch.com/vgo-eng
@@ -9745,7 +9626,7 @@ I suppose then that programming was just running into the very real problems of
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9753,7 +9634,7 @@ I suppose then that programming was just running into the very real problems of bvisness - 28-May-22 12:53 PM + May 28, 2022 12:53 PM
@@ -9797,7 +9678,7 @@ when you add time and other programmers.
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@@ -9805,7 +9686,7 @@ when you add time and other programmers.
demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:55 PM + May 28, 2022 12:55 PM
@@ -9828,12 +9709,12 @@ when you add time and other programmers.
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- Avatar + Avatar
bvisness
@@ -9846,7 +9727,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:56 PM + May 28, 2022 12:56 PM
@@ -9887,7 +9768,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -9895,7 +9776,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:56 PM + May 28, 2022 12:56 PM
@@ -9993,7 +9874,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10001,7 +9882,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 12:58 PM + May 28, 2022 12:58 PM
@@ -10023,7 +9904,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10031,7 +9912,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:58 PM + May 28, 2022 12:58 PM
@@ -10053,7 +9934,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10061,11 +9942,11 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 12:58 PM + May 28, 2022 12:58 PM
- it makes the 90% even worse 😛 + it makes the 90% even worse 😛
@@ -10083,7 +9964,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10091,7 +9972,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 12:58 PM + May 28, 2022 12:58 PM
@@ -10113,7 +9994,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
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@@ -10121,7 +10002,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 12:59 PM + May 28, 2022 12:59 PM
@@ -10162,7 +10043,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10170,7 +10051,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 01:00 PM + May 28, 2022 01:00 PM
@@ -10192,7 +10073,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10200,7 +10081,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:00 PM + May 28, 2022 01:00 PM
@@ -10222,7 +10103,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10230,7 +10111,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 01:01 PM + May 28, 2022 01:01 PM
@@ -10256,7 +10137,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10264,7 +10145,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:01 PM + May 28, 2022 01:01 PM
@@ -10301,7 +10182,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10309,7 +10190,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:01 PM + May 28, 2022 01:01 PM
@@ -10331,7 +10212,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10339,7 +10220,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:02 PM + May 28, 2022 01:02 PM
@@ -10350,12 +10231,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng -
-
- z_OOF - 2 -
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+
@@ -10367,7 +10243,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10375,7 +10251,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:02 PM + May 28, 2022 01:02 PM
@@ -10417,7 +10293,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10425,7 +10301,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:03 PM + May 28, 2022 01:03 PM
@@ -10448,7 +10324,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10456,7 +10332,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:03 PM + May 28, 2022 01:03 PM
@@ -10497,7 +10373,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10505,7 +10381,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:05 PM + May 28, 2022 01:05 PM
@@ -10547,7 +10423,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10555,7 +10431,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:05 PM + May 28, 2022 01:05 PM
@@ -10577,7 +10453,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10585,7 +10461,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:05 PM + May 28, 2022 01:05 PM
@@ -10607,7 +10483,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10615,7 +10491,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:05 PM + May 28, 2022 01:05 PM
@@ -10637,7 +10513,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10645,7 +10521,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:06 PM + May 28, 2022 01:06 PM
@@ -10675,12 +10551,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng -
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- 💯 - 1 -
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+
@@ -10692,7 +10563,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10700,7 +10571,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:06 PM + May 28, 2022 01:06 PM
@@ -10722,7 +10593,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10730,7 +10601,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:06 PM + May 28, 2022 01:06 PM
@@ -10752,7 +10623,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10760,11 +10631,11 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:07 PM + May 28, 2022 01:07 PM
- they are 🙂 + they are 🙂
@@ -10782,7 +10653,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10790,7 +10661,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:07 PM + May 28, 2022 01:07 PM
@@ -10812,7 +10683,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10820,7 +10691,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:07 PM + May 28, 2022 01:07 PM
@@ -10861,7 +10732,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10869,7 +10740,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:08 PM + May 28, 2022 01:08 PM
@@ -10967,7 +10838,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -10975,7 +10846,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:09 PM + May 28, 2022 01:09 PM
@@ -11016,7 +10887,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11024,7 +10895,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:09 PM + May 28, 2022 01:09 PM
@@ -11046,7 +10917,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11054,7 +10925,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 01:10 PM + May 28, 2022 01:10 PM
@@ -11065,12 +10936,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng -
-
- 😄 - 1 -
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+
@@ -11082,7 +10948,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11090,7 +10956,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:10 PM + May 28, 2022 01:10 PM
@@ -11112,7 +10978,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11120,7 +10986,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 01:10 PM + May 28, 2022 01:10 PM
@@ -11161,7 +11027,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11169,7 +11035,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:11 PM + May 28, 2022 01:11 PM
@@ -11191,7 +11057,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11199,7 +11065,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:11 PM + May 28, 2022 01:11 PM
@@ -11240,7 +11106,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11248,7 +11114,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng bvisness - 28-May-22 01:11 PM + May 28, 2022 01:11 PM
@@ -11314,7 +11180,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11322,7 +11188,7 @@ Is it fair to say that OOP languages offered some useful tools for "software eng Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:13 PM + May 28, 2022 01:13 PM
@@ -11362,12 +11228,12 @@ And any design activity really has to have a certain level of humility. Pick a b
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- Avatar + Avatar
bvisness
@@ -11379,7 +11245,7 @@ Is this a fair representation or am I leaving things out? SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:14 PM + May 28, 2022 01:14 PM
@@ -11409,12 +11275,7 @@ Is this a fair representation or am I leaving things out? -
-
- ❤️ - 1 -
-
+
@@ -11446,7 +11307,7 @@ Is this a fair representation or am I leaving things out?
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11454,7 +11315,7 @@ Is this a fair representation or am I leaving things out? bvisness - 28-May-22 01:19 PM + May 28, 2022 01:19 PM
@@ -11481,7 +11342,7 @@ It sounds like the prevailing opinion here is that:
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@@ -11489,7 +11350,7 @@ It sounds like the prevailing opinion here is that: SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:19 PM + May 28, 2022 01:19 PM
@@ -11511,7 +11372,7 @@ It sounds like the prevailing opinion here is that:
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@@ -11519,7 +11380,7 @@ It sounds like the prevailing opinion here is that: bvisness - 28-May-22 01:19 PM + May 28, 2022 01:19 PM
@@ -11564,12 +11425,12 @@ I think design as a general activity makes no sense. Good design comes from unde
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- Avatar + Avatar
bvisness
@@ -11581,7 +11442,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools demetrispanos - 28-May-22 01:21 PM + May 28, 2022 01:21 PM
@@ -11599,7 +11460,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11607,7 +11468,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:20 PM + May 28, 2022 01:20 PM
@@ -11687,7 +11548,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11695,7 +11556,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:21 PM + May 28, 2022 01:21 PM
@@ -11721,7 +11582,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11729,7 +11590,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools bvisness - 28-May-22 01:22 PM + May 28, 2022 01:22 PM
@@ -11751,7 +11612,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11759,7 +11620,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:24 PM + May 28, 2022 01:24 PM
@@ -11819,7 +11680,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11827,7 +11688,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:24 PM + May 28, 2022 01:24 PM
@@ -11845,7 +11706,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11853,7 +11714,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:25 PM + May 28, 2022 01:25 PM
@@ -11871,7 +11732,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11879,7 +11740,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools gingerBill - 28-May-22 01:24 PM + May 28, 2022 01:24 PM
@@ -11905,7 +11766,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11913,7 +11774,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools bvisness - 28-May-22 01:25 PM + May 28, 2022 01:25 PM
@@ -11939,7 +11800,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -11947,7 +11808,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools bvisness - 28-May-22 01:25 PM + May 28, 2022 01:25 PM
@@ -11977,12 +11838,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools -
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@@ -11994,7 +11850,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12002,7 +11858,7 @@ Not only does object-oriented design fail to model problems well, but the tools SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:26 PM + May 28, 2022 01:26 PM
@@ -12026,7 +11882,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- so I'll shut up now 😛 + so I'll shut up now 😛
@@ -12044,7 +11900,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12052,7 +11908,7 @@ Are the same as mine Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:27 PM + May 28, 2022 01:27 PM
@@ -12065,11 +11921,11 @@ Are the same as mine
- 😂 + 😂 3
- AbnerHangry + AbnerHangry 3
@@ -12084,7 +11940,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12092,7 +11948,7 @@ Are the same as mine bvisness - 28-May-22 01:28 PM + May 28, 2022 01:28 PM
@@ -12115,7 +11971,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Thank you all for helping me with my secret moderator agenda of being able to say "before you discuss OOP any further, read this conversation" 😈 + Thank you all for helping me with my secret moderator agenda of being able to say "before you discuss OOP any further, read this conversation" 😈
@@ -12124,7 +11980,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- brain + brain 6
@@ -12177,7 +12033,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12185,7 +12041,7 @@ Are the same as mine Kartik Agaram - 28-May-22 01:31 PM + May 28, 2022 01:31 PM
@@ -12198,7 +12054,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- coolben + coolben 2
@@ -12213,7 +12069,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12221,7 +12077,7 @@ Are the same as mine SirWhinesalot - 28-May-22 01:32 PM + May 28, 2022 01:32 PM
@@ -12243,7 +12099,7 @@ Are the same as mine
- Avatar + Avatar
@@ -12251,11 +12107,11 @@ Are the same as mine bvisness - 28-May-22 01:36 PM + May 28, 2022 01:36 PM
- (For future readers, here is a link to the top! https://discord.com/channels/239737791225790464/980152876846428221/980153085320130630) + (For future readers, here is a link to the top! https://discord.com/channels/239737791225790464/980152876846428221/980153085320130630)
@@ -12268,4 +12124,4 @@ Are the same as mine
-
+
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d,u,y,g=f,v=c.length-1,b=!0;b&&(d=c[g],!((u=c[g+1]).t-this.offsetTime>t));)g=u.t-this.offsetTime)p=1;else if(ti+r))p=o.s*s<=i?0:(o.s*s-i)/r,m=o.e*s>=i+r?1:(o.e*s-i)/r,h.push([p,m])}return h.length||h.push([0,0]),h},TrimModifier.prototype.releasePathsData=function(t){var e,r=t.length;for(e=0;ee.e){r.c=!1;break}e.s<=d&&e.e>=d+n.addedLength?(this.addSegment(f[i].v[s-1],f[i].o[s-1],f[i].i[s],f[i].v[s],r,o,y),y=!1):(l=bez.getNewSegment(f[i].v[s-1],f[i].v[s],f[i].o[s-1],f[i].i[s],(e.s-d)/n.addedLength,(e.e-d)/n.addedLength,h[s-1]),this.addSegmentFromArray(l,r,o,y),y=!1,r.c=!1),d+=n.addedLength,o+=1}if(f[i].c&&h.length){if(n=h[s-1],d<=e.e){var g=h[s-1].addedLength;e.s<=d&&e.e>=d+g?(this.addSegment(f[i].v[s-1],f[i].o[s-1],f[i].i[0],f[i].v[0],r,o,y),y=!1):(l=bez.getNewSegment(f[i].v[s-1],f[i].v[0],f[i].o[s-1],f[i].i[0],(e.s-d)/g,(e.e-d)/g,h[s-1]),this.addSegmentFromArray(l,r,o,y),y=!1,r.c=!1)}else r.c=!1;d+=n.addedLength,o+=1}if(r._length&&(r.setXYAt(r.v[p][0],r.v[p][1],"i",p),r.setXYAt(r.v[r._length-1][0],r.v[r._length-1][1],"o",r._length-1)),d>e.e)break;i=d.length&&(m=0,d=u[f+=1]?u[f].points:P.v.c?u[f=m=0].points:(l-=h.partialLength,null)),d&&(c=h,y=(h=d[m]).partialLength));L=T[s].an/2-T[s].add,C.translate(-L,0,0)}else L=T[s].an/2-T[s].add,C.translate(-L,0,0),C.translate(-E[0]*T[s].an*.005,-E[1]*R*.01,0);for(F=0;Fe);)r+=1;return this.keysIndex!==r&&(this.keysIndex=r),this.data.d.k[this.keysIndex].s},TextProperty.prototype.buildFinalText=function(t){for(var e,r,i=[],s=0,a=t.length,n=!1;sthis.minimumFontSize&&k=g(o)&&(n=u(0,y(t-o<0?y(h,1)-(o-t):h-t,1))),a(n));if(100!==this.sm.v){var c=.01*this.sm.v;0===c&&(c=1e-8);var d=.5-.5*c;nt-this.layers[e].st&&this.buildItem(e),this.completeLayers=!!this.elements[e]&&this.completeLayers;this.checkPendingElements()},BaseRenderer.prototype.createItem=function(t){switch(t.ty){case 2:return this.createImage(t);case 0:return this.createComp(t);case 1:return this.createSolid(t);case 3:return this.createNull(t);case 4:return this.createShape(t);case 5:return this.createText(t);case 6:return this.createAudio(t);case 13:return this.createCamera(t);case 15:return this.createFootage(t);default:return this.createNull(t)}},BaseRenderer.prototype.createCamera=function(){throw new Error("You're using a 3d camera. Try the html renderer.")},BaseRenderer.prototype.createAudio=function(t){return new AudioElement(t,this.globalData,this)},BaseRenderer.prototype.createFootage=function(t){return new FootageElement(t,this.globalData,this)},BaseRenderer.prototype.buildAllItems=function(){var t,e=this.layers.length;for(t=0;t=t)return this.threeDElements[e].perspectiveElem;e+=1}return null},HybridRenderer.prototype.createThreeDContainer=function(t,e){var r,i,s=createTag("div");styleDiv(s);var a=createTag("div");if(styleDiv(a),"3d"===e){(r=s.style).width=this.globalData.compSize.w+"px",r.height=this.globalData.compSize.h+"px";var n="50% 50%";r.webkitTransformOrigin=n,r.mozTransformOrigin=n,r.transformOrigin=n;var o="matrix3d(1,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1)";(i=a.style).transform=o,i.webkitTransform=o}s.appendChild(a);var h={container:a,perspectiveElem:s,startPos:t,endPos:t,type:e};return this.threeDElements.push(h),h},HybridRenderer.prototype.build3dContainers=function(){var t,e,r=this.layers.length,i="";for(t=0;tt?!0!==this.isInRange&&(this.globalData._mdf=!0,this._mdf=!0,this.isInRange=!0,this.show()):!1!==this.isInRange&&(this.globalData._mdf=!0,this.isInRange=!1,this.hide())},renderRenderable:function(){var t,e=this.renderableComponents.length;for(t=0;t=t.x+t.width&&this.currentBBox.height+this.currentBBox.y>=t.y+t.height},HShapeElement.prototype.renderInnerContent=function(){if(this._renderShapeFrame(),!this.hidden&&(this._isFirstFrame||this._mdf)){var t=this.tempBoundingBox,e=999999;if(t.x=e,t.xMax=-e,t.y=e,t.yMax=-e,this.calculateBoundingBox(this.itemsData,t),t.width=t.xMaxthis.animationData.op&&(this.animationData.op=t.op,this.totalFrames=Math.floor(t.op-this.animationData.ip));var e,r,i=this.animationData.layers,s=i.length,a=t.layers,n=a.length;for(r=0;rthis.timeCompleted&&(this.currentFrame=this.timeCompleted),this.trigger("enterFrame"),this.renderFrame(),this.trigger("drawnFrame")},AnimationItem.prototype.renderFrame=function(){if(!1!==this.isLoaded&&this.renderer)try{this.renderer.renderFrame(this.currentFrame+this.firstFrame)}catch(t){this.triggerRenderFrameError(t)}},AnimationItem.prototype.play=function(t){t&&this.name!==t||!0===this.isPaused&&(this.isPaused=!1,this.audioController.resume(),this._idle&&(this._idle=!1,this.trigger("_active")))},AnimationItem.prototype.pause=function(t){t&&this.name!==t||!1===this.isPaused&&(this.isPaused=!0,this._idle=!0,this.trigger("_idle"),this.audioController.pause())},AnimationItem.prototype.togglePause=function(t){t&&this.name!==t||(!0===this.isPaused?this.play():this.pause())},AnimationItem.prototype.stop=function(t){t&&this.name!==t||(this.pause(),this.playCount=0,this._completedLoop=!1,this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(0))},AnimationItem.prototype.getMarkerData=function(t){for(var e,r=0;r=this.totalFrames-1&&0=this.totalFrames?(this.playCount+=1,this.checkSegments(e%this.totalFrames)||(this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(e%this.totalFrames),this._completedLoop=!0,this.trigger("loopComplete"))):this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(e):this.checkSegments(e>this.totalFrames?e%this.totalFrames:0)||(r=!0,e=this.totalFrames-1):e<0?this.checkSegments(e%this.totalFrames)||(!this.loop||this.playCount--<=0&&!0!==this.loop?(r=!0,e=0):(this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(this.totalFrames+e%this.totalFrames),this._completedLoop?this.trigger("loopComplete"):this._completedLoop=!0)):this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(e),r&&(this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(e),this.pause(),this.trigger("complete"))}},AnimationItem.prototype.adjustSegment=function(t,e){this.playCount=0,t[1]t[0]&&(this.frameModifier<0&&(this.playSpeed<0?this.setSpeed(-this.playSpeed):this.setDirection(1)),this.totalFrames=t[1]-t[0],this.timeCompleted=this.totalFrames,this.firstFrame=t[0],this.setCurrentRawFrameValue(.001+e)),this.trigger("segmentStart")},AnimationItem.prototype.setSegment=function(t,e){var r=-1;this.isPaused&&(this.currentRawFrame+this.firstFramee&&(r=e-t)),this.firstFrame=t,this.totalFrames=e-t,this.timeCompleted=this.totalFrames,-1!==r&&this.goToAndStop(r,!0)},AnimationItem.prototype.playSegments=function(t,e){if(e&&(this.segments.length=0),"object"==typeof t[0]){var r,i=t.length;for(r=0;rdata.k[e].t&&tdata.k[e+1].t-t?(r=e+2,data.k[e+1].t):(r=e+1,data.k[e].t);break}}-1===r&&(r=e+1,i=data.k[e].t)}else i=r=0;var a={};return a.index=r,a.time=i/elem.comp.globalData.frameRate,a}function key(t){var e,r,i;if(!data.k.length||"number"==typeof data.k[0])throw new Error("The property has no keyframe at index "+t);t-=1,e={time:data.k[t].t/elem.comp.globalData.frameRate,value:[]};var s=Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call(data.k[t],"s")?data.k[t].s:data.k[t-1].e;for(i=s.length,r=0;rl.length-1)&&(e=l.length-1),i=p-(s=l[l.length-1-e].t)),"pingpong"===t){if(Math.floor((h-s)/i)%2!=0)return this.getValueAtTime((i-(h-s)%i+s)/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0)}else{if("offset"===t){var m=this.getValueAtTime(s/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),f=this.getValueAtTime(p/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),c=this.getValueAtTime(((h-s)%i+s)/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),d=Math.floor((h-s)/i);if(this.pv.length){for(n=(o=new Array(m.length)).length,a=0;al.length-1)&&(e=l.length-1),i=(s=l[e].t)-p),"pingpong"===t){if(Math.floor((p-h)/i)%2==0)return this.getValueAtTime(((p-h)%i+p)/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0)}else{if("offset"===t){var m=this.getValueAtTime(p/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),f=this.getValueAtTime(s/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),c=this.getValueAtTime((i-(p-h)%i+p)/this.comp.globalData.frameRate,0),d=Math.floor((p-h)/i)+1;if(this.pv.length){for(n=(o=new Array(m.length)).length,a=0;an){var p=o,m=r.c&&o===h-1?0:o+1,f=(n-l)/a[o].addedLength;i=bez.getPointInSegment(r.v[p],r.v[m],r.o[p],r.i[m],f,a[o]);break}l+=a[o].addedLength,o+=1}return i||(i=r.c?[r.v[0][0],r.v[0][1]]:[r.v[r._length-1][0],r.v[r._length-1][1]]),i},vectorOnPath:function(t,e,r){1==t?t=this.v.c:0==t&&(t=.999);var i=this.pointOnPath(t,e),s=this.pointOnPath(t+.001,e),a=s[0]-i[0],n=s[1]-i[1],o=Math.sqrt(Math.pow(a,2)+Math.pow(n,2));return 0===o?[0,0]:"tangent"===r?[a/o,n/o]:[-n/o,a/o]},tangentOnPath:function(t,e){return this.vectorOnPath(t,e,"tangent")},normalOnPath:function(t,e){return this.vectorOnPath(t,e,"normal")},setGroupProperty:expressionHelpers.setGroupProperty,getValueAtTime:expressionHelpers.getStaticValueAtTime},extendPrototype([r],t),extendPrototype([r],e),e.prototype.getValueAtTime=function(t){return this._cachingAtTime||(this._cachingAtTime={shapeValue:shapePool.clone(this.pv),lastIndex:0,lastTime:initialDefaultFrame}),t*=this.elem.globalData.frameRate,(t-=this.offsetTime)!==this._cachingAtTime.lastTime&&(this._cachingAtTime.lastIndex=this._cachingAtTime.lastTime